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    4711 months ago

    Imagine you, your friends and your family get killed and washed away from your land, and 2/3 of US people don’t believe it’s genocide.

    • @pjwestin@lemmy.world
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      3511 months ago

      Actually 1/3 said it is genocide, 1/3 said it isn’t, and 1/3 said they didn’t know. Also, only1/3 of Americans saying this is a genocide isn’t great, but it does represent a huge shift in opinion in a short time. Both our political parties support Israel, our news media doesn’t cover Palestinians very sympathetically, and our education system tells a very favorable version of Israel’s founding (most Americans don’t even learn about the Nakba). I don’t think criticism of Israel has ever been this mainstream (at least in my lifetime).

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        -211 months ago

        Actually 1/3 said it is genocide, 1/3 said it isn’t, and 1/3 said they didn’t know

        That means

        1. 1/3 believe it’s genocide
        2. 1/3 believe it’s not
        3. 2/3 do not believe it’s genocide
        • @pjwestin@lemmy.world
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          611 months ago

          I see what you’re trying to say, but that’s not really true. You could say, “2/3 of people would not say they thought it was a genocide,” but that’s not the same as saying, “2/3 do not believe it’s genocide.”

          It’s a small but important distinction. It’s the equivalent of saying, “1/3 of people are religious, 1/3 of people are atheist, and 1/3 of people are agnostic,” and then trying to say that means, “2/3 of people don’t believe in God,” instead of, “2/3 of people aren’t religious.”

    • @Doorbook@lemmy.world
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      1611 months ago

      Average Us public have no clue what is going on in their own country, it is actually amazing there 1/3 know at least there is a genocide taking place.

      • @qdJzXuisAndVQb2@lemm.ee
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        2111 months ago

        The problem is, before they wemt on that murdering spree, the western world pretty much ignored their plight, or maybe tutted when they chucked a rocket or two over the border. But any kind of “proper” political solution was flatly ignored. It’s not a justification, but I have to say that I umderstand why that situation led to a “fuck it, let’s just rampage” attitude. And look, they actually have a tonne of eyeballs and attention on their shitty situation (and shitty leaders), so maybe something will come of this. Palestinians are paying an exorbitantly heavy price for it, though.

        • @grue@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          It’s not a justification, but I have to say that I understand why that situation led to a “fuck it, let’s just rampage” attitude.

          Reminds me of this.

        • @gapbetweenus@feddit.de
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          -211 months ago

          Sure, but again - if you murder people at a music festival and take hostages, even if you might have reasons to do so - you can expect quite a lot of people to not be on your side. The only thing for sure is that terrorists won that one.

          • ???
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            1311 months ago

            Sure, but again, if you indiscriminately kill innocent people in Gaza and destroy the very last university, even if you might have reasons to do so - you can expect quite a lot of people to not be on your side. The only thing for sure is that Israel won that one.

            • @gapbetweenus@feddit.de
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              111 months ago

              Absolutely. Not sure why you would think I don’t understand the hatred Israel is getting.

              The only thing for sure is that Israel won that one.

              Not sure what Israel won, despite making sure there will be another generation of Palestinian freedom fighters with rather questionable methods.

              • ???
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                211 months ago

                I wasn’t making a statement about you, I just wanted to demonstrate the statement can be made in any way.

                I agree, Israel bred the Hamas of tomorrow for sure. But they did win in terms of getting closer to turning Gaza into a settlement.

                • @gapbetweenus@feddit.de
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                  011 months ago

                  I wasn’t making a statement about you, I just wanted to demonstrate the statement can be made in any way.

                  But you were responding to a actual person, me. So it would have helped if you clarified it wasn’t about me - don’t you think?

                  Israel bred the Hamas of tomorrow for sure. But they did win in terms of getting closer to turning Gaza into a settlement.

                  Even that sounds to me like a win for the terrorists - but I can see, people have different view.

                  • ???
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                    311 months ago

                    It’s directed to you. It just makes no statements about you personally, just responding to your opinion. Hope that clarifies it.

              • @gapbetweenus@feddit.de
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                211 months ago

                call the people in the phone first and tell them bombs are coming?

                We do live in a dystopian world after all: “We are pleased to inform you that your house has been selected for a bombing due to acute terrorist threat. Please leave the area immediately. We are thankful for your cooperation.” Only missing Judge Dredd.

                • ???
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                  111 months ago

                  “OH yes and you only have 2 minutes to leave… But sometimes we skip the warning because Hamas might find out and flee too… That would ruin our chances of killing the terrorists! Thank you for understanding.”

                • That’s great.

                  Does Hamas ever probe any of their bombings? Does Hamas ever give a warning before it launches rockets into Israel? Does Hamas give a shit if it targets a college or a hospital or a school? Has Hamas ever charged one of its fighters with War crimes?

                  No. If Hamas blows up a coffee shop with 50 kids in it, the bombers family member gets a nice pension, probably paid with Iranian oil money. No warnings. No accountability. Actual indiscriminate killing of civilians.

                  You keep asking me why I credit what the IDF says. Well, they actually have some culture of transparency and see, you credit them, too.

          • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】
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            11 months ago

            The terrorists won that one? Not sure they’d agree. I guess they thought they were going to retreat into the tunnels and nobody was going to blow the tunnels up on top of them.

            • @gapbetweenus@feddit.de
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              411 months ago

              The concept of terrorism in general. Once again it was able to achieve an escalation of violence and therefore create more terrorism.

                  • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】
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                    11 months ago

                    You said escalations of violence cause terrorism.

                    Any just war is an escalation of violence if nothing else.

                    Therefore by your logic, a just war causes terrorism.

                    The implication by your logic is that no war should be had so as not to cause terrorism.

                    I would agree if you said all war causes vengeful losers to resort to desperate acts of violence against innocent people. I do not agree that a just war should be called off because the enemy on the receiving end of that justice will probably lash out in its death throes. That would be called negotiating with terrorists.

                    If you are worried about more terrorists, I agree bombing terrorists causes more terrorists, but negotiating with them opens the floodgates. And it’s not like we don’t have enough bombs.

    • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】
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      11 months ago

      Well, did my family join Hamas and then force me to stay to die as a martyr inside a building that Israel just told us they were going to bomb?

      I think I’d be fine with the US not calling that genocide. If they did I hope they’d at least blame the actually responsible party.