- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@derp.foo
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@derp.foo
- news@lemmy.world
Men who identify as incels have “fundamental thinking errors” about what women want, research shows.
A study at Swansea University found incels - or involuntary celibates - overestimated physical attractiveness and finances, while underestimating kindness, humour and loyalty.
The study’s co-author Andrew Thomas said “thinking errors” could “lead us down some quite troubling paths”.
He said mental health support was crucial, as opposed to “demonisation”.
The term refers to a community, largely online, of mainly heterosexual men frustrated by their inability to form romantic or sexual relationships.
The idea dates back more than 30 years and was popularised by a website offering support for lonely people who felt left behind.
Study: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00224499.2023.2248096
I know people are going to hate this take …
These people are victims, and to do anything other than try to support them is victim blaming. They are literally perpetuating a cycle of abuse.
They feel left out of society, a society that judges them based on whether or not they are a provider. Then makes it impossible to be a provider. They have been told they are worthless and undeserving of real emotional connections.
Wouldn’t you be angry if that was you? I don’t know why people are so surprised that people that are left out create insular groups. It is these groups that the sadness and anger they feel is magnified into what we see expressed in the world by them.
They can be helped the younger they are the easier it will be. Everybody who laughs at this and says they deserve it is perpetuating the abuse and victim blaming.
Lots of people are left out of society, that’s no excuse for violent hatred. There are plenty of men who don’t turn into disgusting abusive trolls; the ones who do don’t get a pass because life is hard.
It’s obscene to suggest that they don’t have a choice or bear responsibility for their actions. It insults and directly harms both them and their victims.
I never said it was. Not everyone turns to violence, but you find that in any group that has felt left out of society some members will turn to violence. Tell them they shouldn’t be violent while at the same time not being willing to work toward a society where people don’t need violence to feel heard will never make things better.
what is an excuse for violent hatred?
im seeing a lot of it all around me right now being justified by progessives.
What do we gain by judging them?
Asking honestly and to whoever cares to reply.
No, they fucking haven’t.
Incels are mostly straight white men, the central and most catered to demographic in our society. This does, in fact created an overinflated sense of entitlement in them that may never realistically pan out for all straight white men, but to say they have been “left out” of a society that literally focuses on them above and at the expense of everyone else is not only being deliberately ignorant, but using the exact rhetoric that pulls them in in the first place, and claiming that holding them accountable for their choices is “victim blaming” is borderline sick (and also implies that, say, KKK members are also just “innocent victims”).
They have actual victims.
Never mind that if the people systemically and institutionally left out of society and actually victimised for who they are (and not for their violent actions, like incels are) - racial and religious minorities, disabled people, queer people, and so on, are able to deal with the world while actually being marginalised and excluded without turning in to volatile and violent bigots, the straight white men can sure fucking deal with not getting everything they think they’re owed by society just for existing.
I’m so sick of this bullshit rhetoric, usually pulled out after mass shootings, and only ever and exclusively in defence of straight white men. It’s just more proof of their entitlement and privilege, not less.
it’s possible to be a victim and a perpetrator at the same time and in multiple facets.
I am not trying to defend bad behavior merely try to get people to think past the outward displays and to the root of it. I will never say anger or violence is okay.
I would never suggest that straight white men have not historically been deferred to. But I can’t think that the solution to fixing marginalization in society is to marginalize a different group instead.
It seems like the best way to prevent the mental state that leads to mass shooting is to include these people. Make them feel like they can contribute to make it better. Would you shoot up a school that you helped build? But if all you were told was you need to sit down and shut up wouldn’t you want to destroy?
I genuinely hope that you are not suggesting that just because someone is historically privileged that can’t be later marginalized. The liberation of women is one of the greatest accomplishments of the modern era. Along with the ongoing work to lift historically marginalized groups. It is no different than breaking any other cycle of abuse. I genuinely hope that this continues. We will be a better society for it, but turning it into a zero sum game will only lead to further problems.
The best thing we can do is work in the manner that Gandhi taught. And that includes love for all people. Remember there are many men who have not yet fallen down this hole. They have people whispering in their ears that society hates them. Getting angry at these people, tell them that it doesn’t matter if they are having a hard time, just because someone else is having it harder will only lead them down that hole. That is what breaking the cycle is all about. Hating someone just because someone like the hates you will only ever make things worse. It is up to each of us to remember that no one was born this way. Everyone you, me and the next school shooter. Is truly just a kid needing a hung at heart. Remember that is the only way out.
People say that about other groups all the time. What’s your explanation for poor people committing more crime?
Stealing food so you don’t die is different from abusing women because you’re sad. What a creepy comparison.
Stealing food, the only crime that has ever been committed. Of course that’s specifically what I was referring to. You’re great at judging people.
Poor people commit more crimes because more activity by the poor to survive is criminalized.
What kind of crime do you think I’m talking about? I guess I need to be more specific when I’m dealing with people who get up in the morning wanting to hate people.