There are no problems except when there are problems
Yeah, one vendor getting an unhealthy market share is bad so let’s give Valve that marketshare
Also “immutable” is generally used to refer to how SteamOS handles package/library versions. Its an increasing push among many “user friendly” distros that I generally like. But it is also why we basically all said “Uhm… da fuq?” when ayaneo talked about running steamos. And is why they are actually running holoos (?).
Also, it predates the vast majority of us but it is worth looking at the actual rise of Windows. A lot of the arguments you are making have direct parallels to why people should use ms-dos and later windows over a lot of the older dos OSes. Or, again, look at the rise of Google Chrome and Android. A company can start off “awesome” but end up becoming the bogeyman we all hate.
Would more accurately be stated as ‘there are no problems if you can follow basic instructions and not wildly do things you dont fully understand’
This simply assumes as matter of indisputable fact that Valve having more marketshare is… bad? For… some reason? Is there some inherent reason why an extremely niche handheld basically gaming device with additional capabilities, a thing they pioneered not too long ago, is there some reason this is not entirely to be expected by a manufacturer pioneering a totally new kind of product?
Seriously, what?
Ok so very quickly, yes SteamOS is immutable amd I was unaware of that as I do not have literally all the free time in the world, but thats all irrelevant to the point I was making there?
I am not equipped with enough knowledge or foresight to perfectly predict the evolution of new products markets and technology and never claimed to, and you have suddenly shifted into that frame of reference to respond to me.
If Valve ever reverses course on being, you know, the most effective FOSS advocate in terms of getting members of the general public maybe likely to switch to FOSS to actually do so, then I will be pretty shocked and surprised.
If they suddenly come out with some kind of obvious policy that would be very bad for FOSS in general, then I’d be critical of it.
Companies shittifying is obviously a thing that happens in the tech industry, and I guess you see Valve laying some kind of groundwork for this. I currently disagree, but if it does happen, then everyone in FOSS will do what everyone in FOSS has always done and adapt.
I am sorry, I would think it would make way more sense to be critical of things like what Canonical has been doing for a while now if you want to be worried about the FOSS scene.
And Canonical also used to be everyone’s poster child for how to support open source development at an enterprise-ish level… since Red Hat had already passed off the baton on that. Which has led to the hilarity of people arguing in favor of rocky as an alternative to the shitshow that ubuntu is becoming?
This is a cycle that happens time and time again. This is WHY people need to avoid deciding that one company is their friends and another company isn’t. Instead, look at what the company is doing but be wary of how everything has repeatedly gone pear shaped in the past.
Because… Microsoft (especially since buying github…) actually do a LOT of really good work for the open source community as a side effect of supporting Windows (and WSL). I can say “Good job Microsfot” while still wanting nothing to do with win 10/11.
Similarly, Valve have and still are doing a LOT of really good stuff for “gaming on linux”. I am not going to pretend that is not in their own self interest and largely a way to fend off Microsoft slowly starting to make inroads to PC gaming again. I am also not going to forget the years of stagnation that more or less lasted from the death of Desura up until GoG and EGS started becoming a thing.
Because, again, look at Google. Chrome was an amazing product and the monetary investment google pumped into Chromium made “life” a lot better both for developers and users. And it forced Mozilla to get their shit together. And now Chrome may actively be killing the internet as we know it if not enough people migrate away.
Again, I like Valve. I have since I read interviews with them about Half-Life 1 in various magazines. I had (and still have) concerns over what it meant for Steam to win “the DRM wars” (I think we would all be better off if Brad Wardell got hit by a bus and his successor at Stardock won because GOO was shockingly nice) but I can’t at all argue that PC gaming is more alive as a result than it ever had been even before. But that doesn’t mean that Valve will always be “good guys”. Maybe GabeN dies underneath a collapsing cabinet full of his knife collection. Maybe he decides he wants to own a country and needs more cash.
But I am very cognizant of what can happen if the company that owns a de facto monopoly on an industry goes to the dark side. We have already seen exactly that happen with Microsoft and Google and others. Which is why I will advocate for Linux as a gaming alternative but keep “SteamOS” at arm’s reach. Same as I advocate for Linux as a consumer desktop but don’t overly recommend Fedora or Mint or whatever else. The beauty of Linux and open source (true FOSS or otherwise) is that it provides alternatives in the event a company or vendor shit the bed. And SteamOS… is very much a step toward a walled garden.
So, to summarize:
Also “immutable” is generally used to refer to how SteamOS handles package/library versions. Its an increasing push among many “user friendly” distros that I generally like. But it is also why we basically all said “Uhm… da fuq?” when ayaneo talked about running steamos. And is why they are actually running holoos (?).
Also, it predates the vast majority of us but it is worth looking at the actual rise of Windows. A lot of the arguments you are making have direct parallels to why people should use ms-dos and later windows over a lot of the older dos OSes. Or, again, look at the rise of Google Chrome and Android. A company can start off “awesome” but end up becoming the bogeyman we all hate.
Ok so youre being ludicrous now.
Would more accurately be stated as ‘there are no problems if you can follow basic instructions and not wildly do things you dont fully understand’
This simply assumes as matter of indisputable fact that Valve having more marketshare is… bad? For… some reason? Is there some inherent reason why an extremely niche handheld basically gaming device with additional capabilities, a thing they pioneered not too long ago, is there some reason this is not entirely to be expected by a manufacturer pioneering a totally new kind of product?
Seriously, what?
Ok so very quickly, yes SteamOS is immutable amd I was unaware of that as I do not have literally all the free time in the world, but thats all irrelevant to the point I was making there?
I am not equipped with enough knowledge or foresight to perfectly predict the evolution of new products markets and technology and never claimed to, and you have suddenly shifted into that frame of reference to respond to me.
If Valve ever reverses course on being, you know, the most effective FOSS advocate in terms of getting members of the general public maybe likely to switch to FOSS to actually do so, then I will be pretty shocked and surprised.
If they suddenly come out with some kind of obvious policy that would be very bad for FOSS in general, then I’d be critical of it.
Companies shittifying is obviously a thing that happens in the tech industry, and I guess you see Valve laying some kind of groundwork for this. I currently disagree, but if it does happen, then everyone in FOSS will do what everyone in FOSS has always done and adapt.
I am sorry, I would think it would make way more sense to be critical of things like what Canonical has been doing for a while now if you want to be worried about the FOSS scene.
And Canonical also used to be everyone’s poster child for how to support open source development at an enterprise-ish level… since Red Hat had already passed off the baton on that. Which has led to the hilarity of people arguing in favor of rocky as an alternative to the shitshow that ubuntu is becoming?
This is a cycle that happens time and time again. This is WHY people need to avoid deciding that one company is their friends and another company isn’t. Instead, look at what the company is doing but be wary of how everything has repeatedly gone pear shaped in the past.
Because… Microsoft (especially since buying github…) actually do a LOT of really good work for the open source community as a side effect of supporting Windows (and WSL). I can say “Good job Microsfot” while still wanting nothing to do with win 10/11.
Similarly, Valve have and still are doing a LOT of really good stuff for “gaming on linux”. I am not going to pretend that is not in their own self interest and largely a way to fend off Microsoft slowly starting to make inroads to PC gaming again. I am also not going to forget the years of stagnation that more or less lasted from the death of Desura up until GoG and EGS started becoming a thing.
Because, again, look at Google. Chrome was an amazing product and the monetary investment google pumped into Chromium made “life” a lot better both for developers and users. And it forced Mozilla to get their shit together. And now Chrome may actively be killing the internet as we know it if not enough people migrate away.
Again, I like Valve. I have since I read interviews with them about Half-Life 1 in various magazines. I had (and still have) concerns over what it meant for Steam to win “the DRM wars” (I think we would all be better off if Brad Wardell got hit by a bus and his successor at Stardock won because GOO was shockingly nice) but I can’t at all argue that PC gaming is more alive as a result than it ever had been even before. But that doesn’t mean that Valve will always be “good guys”. Maybe GabeN dies underneath a collapsing cabinet full of his knife collection. Maybe he decides he wants to own a country and needs more cash.
But I am very cognizant of what can happen if the company that owns a de facto monopoly on an industry goes to the dark side. We have already seen exactly that happen with Microsoft and Google and others. Which is why I will advocate for Linux as a gaming alternative but keep “SteamOS” at arm’s reach. Same as I advocate for Linux as a consumer desktop but don’t overly recommend Fedora or Mint or whatever else. The beauty of Linux and open source (true FOSS or otherwise) is that it provides alternatives in the event a company or vendor shit the bed. And SteamOS… is very much a step toward a walled garden.