Thankfully, intellectual dishonesty doesn’t cause searing abdominal pain, as you’d probably spend a lot of your waking moments curled up in fetal position.
Exactly. These clubs are not being put into schools by some outside corporation. They are made by students, with faculty support, like all clubs. The Satanic Temple provides support to these groups, because without an organization like them to back them up, clubs like this would all get shut down by bigoted principals and PTA groups.
Do you think elementary school kids woke up one day and decided to spontaneously join together with other elementary school kids to reach out to the local Satanist chapter to invite them to bring more schoolwork?
Come on. Kids just want to play. The Christians, the Satanists and especially the kids parents are all complicit in using children for political gain.
My daughter has been an outspoken atheist since she was six years old since she told her grandmother, “grandma, when I stay over at your house on the weekends, I don’t want to go to church with you, because I don’t really believe in god.” And none of it has been at my prompting in any way. I haven’t been quiet to her about what I personally think, but I also have made it very clear to her that other people think other things and it’s up to her to figure out what she believes. She’s still an atheist at 13. She’s far too shy to open such a club. If my shitty private elementary school existed now and I knew about those clubs by the time I was in fifth or sixth grade, I would have formed one because I wasn’t shy. You do not give kids enough credit.
You said that your daughter didn’t start a special interest group because she was shy. Similarly, 8 or 9 year old kids probably didn’t seek out the local chapter of the Satanists. Someone told them to do this.
I don’t think that any religion should be doing that.
Got it. You didn’t read my entire post. I’ll help you out:
If my shitty private elementary school existed now and I knew about those clubs by the time I was in fifth or sixth grade, I would have formed one because I wasn’t shy.
The Satanic Temple only goes to schools that have other relgious groups opening after school programs. They preach the belief to follow science and reason and find the best/most logical answers instead of listening to absurd unproven beliefs (such as dinosaurs not being real). They do NOT believe in Satan or preach that any such thing is good.
The name is a little tongue/cheek with the whole idea that some Christians would call any who don’t act as sheep and act as part of the heard that follows the lord, their shepherd is satan or guided by satan in disguise.
Yeah, that’s my point. Their whole organization is trolling and I don’t think that they should use kids for publicity. Nor do I think that they should attempt to influence kids at all, just like every other religion.
I don’t believe that elementary school children sought the local chapter of the Satanists by themselves. Someone invited themselves into the kids lives and I think that’s inappropriate.
I don’t think that children should be involved in extracurricular religious activity until they’re 16. Just like they shouldn’t be involved in sexual activity until they’re 18, despite being physically capable.
How are they influenced, and they aren’t used being used for publicity from what I can tell from the article. One of the first posts here does a pretty good summary of the article that it centers more around the outrage than actually the after-school program itself.
I can see what you’re driving towards. It’d be far more ideal for us adults to hash this out, yeah?
I wish they’d remove Under God from the damn pledge of allegiance, but it seems schools are the next major battleground (sometimes literally) for all things political.
Should get rid of the pledge completely tbh… Having children pledge allegiance to the country (or, bizarrely, a symbolic piece of cloth) is some North Korea type shit on par with Trump’s military parade…
That’s exactly my point. Insecure religions (including the Satanists) use schools as a battleground for their political goals. It shouldn’t be allowed.
Religion should be something that’s between the kids and the parents (for better or for worse) until the kids are matured, maybe 16 years old at least.
It’s generally been the case that the parents are the most unbiased wellwishers of the kids, something that religious organizations often cannot do.
You’re confusing Satanists with Pastafarians. The latter ones are indeed grumpy, annoying, one-trick pony trolls, while Satanists are an inclusive, rational, social movement which has understood that levity is serious business.
I wish that I could be so simple. My personal experience is that all humans are prone to hypocrisy and the tendency to exploit others. The Satanists are not exceptional.
They also have classes for reading, but that wouldn’t rule out a book club. I’m sure they have gym classes too, and are allowed to have after school sports “clubs”. This may surprise you, but some kids are more intelligent than average, or have a higher level of interest in a subject than is taught in classes. After school, optional clubs allow them to explore those interests.
Some kids are sexually mature at 9, 10, or 11 years old. But we don’t allow them to procreate because we know that they’re not emotionally and intellectually developed enough to understand the repercussions of sex.
Similarly, in my opinion, religion is something that should not be pushed onto children, especially in a public school setting, until they are mature enough to contemplate the issues. It’s categorically different from other special interests like sports.
Though there are also many sports fanatics who use kids and sometimes damage their well-being, but that’s another subject…
Similarly, in my opinion, religion is something that should not be pushed onto children, especially in a public school setting, until they are mature enough to contemplate the issues.
THIS CLUB IS NOT RELIGIOUS!
You have seen nearly a dozen posts pointing this out and you still ignore it and continue to spout blatantly false statements.
It’s also not being pushed on anyone. It is an optional after school club. Enough with the lies already.
So they don’t believe in doing it… but they do it.
Explain to me how it’s not just trolling?
Again, I don’t believe that elementary school children sought out the Satanists on their own. It would be almost impossible for 8 or 9 year old kids to know that the Satanists exists.
Why doubt when you can do the research and find out for sure? There is a federally mandated science curriculum that Tennessee must teach. It includes the latest scientific paradigms like evolution. It would be illegal for the Memphis school district to not teach evolution or whatever else is contentious to the religionists. The district would be sued. In fact, this has happened in school districts all over the country.
So I don’t believe the Satanists are really concerned with supplementing the kids education, nor are they explicitly qualified to do so. As I’ve said, based on the several members that I’ve met and based on their literature, they are a trolling organization meant to illustrate the hypocrisy of Christianity, and I think that’s totally fine. They have my passive support. But using kids for this purpose is inappropriate.
If their meetings were being publicized for political gain, yes.
I’m all for freedom of speech and of religion. Don’t get me wrong. And so the Satanists should be judged just like everyone else. In my opinion, they have completely degressed to the same level of obnoxiousness as the born again Christians, but in much less the time. As far as I’m concerned, it’s just a giant trolling organization and they shouldn’t exploit minors just to make a point.
You say that, and yet you’re against this. So you’re not really for freedom of speech and religion. You’re just for freedom of speech and religion that you like.
Nobody is using minors for a political statement. This is a school club. The kids had a “great time” according to the article, despite the fact that there were hate-filled bigots harassing them.
“Activities promoted by the club include science projects, community service projects, puzzles and games, nature activities, arts and crafts and snacks, the flyer said.”
No political statements here.
Meanwhile, rather than talk to the children who had a “great time” about what kinds of activities they did, the article awards several paragraphs to religious bigots so that they can spout their hate speech.
I wish I’d had access to a satanic temple club when I was in school. Instead I was coerced to participate in prayer circles. It’s a shame more people don’t protest those.
I’m glad the kids had a good time. It really sounds like fun.
I’m sorry that you were coerced. How old were you? I don’t think that children can make informed decisions about their spirituality until they’re about 16 years old, if you ask me…
I’ve met Satanists recently at my university and I’ve read enough in the news to conclude that everything they do is posturing for politics. That’s totally fine with me. But using kids for sympathy points is wrong no matter who does it. I refuse to be a hypocrite.
I was abused and brainwashed for my entire childhood by religious people. Throughout my school years we were coerced into participation in faith groups and prayer circles in school, by teachers who knew they couldn’t force us to participate so instead they offered extra credit to everyone who did and nothing to anyone who didn’t. It was and is a sick, sick system that still goes on today in public schools all over the country. In fact it’s worse today, because you now have national networks of religious activists who come up with sicker and sicker ways to circumvent laws and illegally promote their harmful religions.
As far as I’m concerned, the Satanic Temple can posture for politics all they want. What they’re doing is good work. They provide safe spaces for kids where they can learn science, logic, and valuable tools. They fight religious abuse in schools, and they seem to be the only ones doing it. And they doing it by brilliantly using the exact same methods that religious bigots use to abuse children back against them. The only reason people get mad at them is because they’re playing by the same rules that Christians have been abusing for decades. Any criticism at them can be thrown back at religious organizations one hundred thousands times over.
But truthfully, just because they exist as a corporation doesn’t make them “posturing for politics.” Certainly no more than every single church group out there is also “posturing for politics.” The Satanic Temple only exists as a reaction against these organizations, and it has far less money, infrastructure, and manpower than pretty much any other church does. To criticize them for being political is like criticizing someone for pouring a glass of water into a swimming pool. They’re doing good work, and doing far more to protect and help children than any church, or any newspaper that gives free advertising to bigots like this one is doing.
I’m sorry that you experienced abuse and I hope that you’ve moved on, if possible. You didn’t deserve abuse, of course.
Yes. I’m throwing criticism at both the Satanists and the Christians. I think that they should leave kids alone until they’re at least 16. It would be hypocritical to say that one group doing it is wrong but they other group doing it is right.
I think that the Satanists should do some charity like feeding the poor if they want get notoriety and stop looking like a joke. It’s very easy to become a distributor for the Food Bank and that could really make a difference in people’s lives.
Kids already have science classes taught by professionals. I don’t believe that the Satanists are really concerned with bolstering the kids education, but that opinion is mostly based on the few Satanists that I’ve met. They’re just not serious.
As far as I’m concerned, it’s just a giant trolling organization and they shouldn’t exploit minors just to make a point.
Children shouldn’t have enrichment in their lives if it’s also part of an effort to ensure their right to future enrichment after they become adults? Because that’s the whole point of TST and ASSC.
Interesting. I didn’t find that mission statement anywhere on their website. It’s definitely not the point of TST.
Please read their website and tell me that it’s not just trolling.
In all honesty, I’m glad that they’ve promoted religious liberty in their own way. I just think that kids shouldn’t be cannon fodder for theirs or any other religion’s mission.
I’m a member of both the national and my local congregations of TST. It’s not just trolling. While the theatrics are 100% for show and to rile up the conservative Right, the ASSC is 100% in line with our fundamental tenets, specifically tenets 1, 3, and 5. Providing children with educational, non-superstitious after-school activities in a safe environment is a legitimate practice of our held beliefs.
OK. It’s some trolling. I guess we each have to judge the degree.
Pretty clear to me, then, that they’re just using the kids for publicity. That makes them no different from the born-again Christians who use kids for whatever purpose they’re after.
They’re helping protect kids from organizations that harm them, and you’re calling them no different simply because their work involves kids.
Tell me, how do they help kids without involving kids???
You know nothing about the Satanic Temple, you’ve just made snap judgments based on your woefully insufficient exposure to a handful of people. You didn’t read their website or mission statement before incorrectly assuming what they do.
You accuse people who are actually doing something to help of trolling, while you yourself sit here and criticize them while demonstrating total ignorance about what they do and who they are. All the while you’re acting as a shield defending the actual child abusers.
This is the most intellectually dishonest take I have seen in this sub. You should be ashamed. You need to go study up on what you’re talking about before digging deeper into your own misinformed prejudices.
How do you help kids without involving kids? Easy. Help the parents or guardians. It’s not up to a religious organization to decide what is good for someone else’s kids. I think that both the Satanists and the Christians should be banned from targeting children under the age of 16.
Love using kids as political pawns
Thankfully, intellectual dishonesty doesn’t cause searing abdominal pain, as you’d probably spend a lot of your waking moments curled up in fetal position.
The kids formed the club themselves with TST’s approval. Should they not be allowed to form a club if they want to?
Exactly. These clubs are not being put into schools by some outside corporation. They are made by students, with faculty support, like all clubs. The Satanic Temple provides support to these groups, because without an organization like them to back them up, clubs like this would all get shut down by bigoted principals and PTA groups.
Do you think elementary school kids woke up one day and decided to spontaneously join together with other elementary school kids to reach out to the local Satanist chapter to invite them to bring more schoolwork?
Come on. Kids just want to play. The Christians, the Satanists and especially the kids parents are all complicit in using children for political gain.
My daughter has been an outspoken atheist since she was six years old since she told her grandmother, “grandma, when I stay over at your house on the weekends, I don’t want to go to church with you, because I don’t really believe in god.” And none of it has been at my prompting in any way. I haven’t been quiet to her about what I personally think, but I also have made it very clear to her that other people think other things and it’s up to her to figure out what she believes. She’s still an atheist at 13. She’s far too shy to open such a club. If my shitty private elementary school existed now and I knew about those clubs by the time I was in fifth or sixth grade, I would have formed one because I wasn’t shy. You do not give kids enough credit.
So you’re agreeing that the kids probably didn’t start an after school Satanists club by themselves?
The article says that it’s elementary school, so we’re not talking about 13 year olds. These kids are much younger.
I’m glad to hear that your daughter is living her truth.
No, I’m literally saying the opposite. I have no idea how you got that from what I said.
You said that your daughter didn’t start a special interest group because she was shy. Similarly, 8 or 9 year old kids probably didn’t seek out the local chapter of the Satanists. Someone told them to do this.
I don’t think that any religion should be doing that.
Got it. You didn’t read my entire post. I’ll help you out:
How would you have known about the Satanists when you were in fifth grade?
Who? Christians?
Yes. And Christians.
The Satanic Temple only goes to schools that have other relgious groups opening after school programs. They preach the belief to follow science and reason and find the best/most logical answers instead of listening to absurd unproven beliefs (such as dinosaurs not being real). They do NOT believe in Satan or preach that any such thing is good.
The name is a little tongue/cheek with the whole idea that some Christians would call any who don’t act as sheep and act as part of the heard that follows the lord, their shepherd is satan or guided by satan in disguise.
Yeah, that’s my point. Their whole organization is trolling and I don’t think that they should use kids for publicity. Nor do I think that they should attempt to influence kids at all, just like every other religion.
Imagine being such a terminal simp for anti-American thuggery that you think standing up for civil rights is “trolling.”
I’m standing up for the kids right to live in peace and not be coerced to fulfill the insecurities of any religious group.
No one is forcing any kids to join this club. It is an entirely optional after school activity.
I don’t believe that elementary school children sought the local chapter of the Satanists by themselves. Someone invited themselves into the kids lives and I think that’s inappropriate.
I don’t think that children should be involved in extracurricular religious activity until they’re 16. Just like they shouldn’t be involved in sexual activity until they’re 18, despite being physically capable.
How are they influenced, and they aren’t used being used for publicity from what I can tell from the article. One of the first posts here does a pretty good summary of the article that it centers more around the outrage than actually the after-school program itself.
They’re not. It’s a dishonest argument.
I can see what you’re driving towards. It’d be far more ideal for us adults to hash this out, yeah?
I wish they’d remove Under God from the damn pledge of allegiance, but it seems schools are the next major battleground (sometimes literally) for all things political.
You mean bring the pledge back to its original form pre 1954? It wasn’t there before, it was added incase people don’t know or forgot.
It was written in 1892 without religion
Should get rid of the pledge completely tbh… Having children pledge allegiance to the country (or, bizarrely, a symbolic piece of cloth) is some North Korea type shit on par with Trump’s military parade…
As a German, let me tell you that it’s very much fascist.
Agreed.
Frankly I think the pledge should be gone altogether. It’s fuckin weird.
That’s exactly my point. Insecure religions (including the Satanists) use schools as a battleground for their political goals. It shouldn’t be allowed.
Religion should be something that’s between the kids and the parents (for better or for worse) until the kids are matured, maybe 16 years old at least.
It’s generally been the case that the parents are the most unbiased wellwishers of the kids, something that religious organizations often cannot do.
You’re confusing Satanists with Pastafarians. The latter ones are indeed grumpy, annoying, one-trick pony trolls, while Satanists are an inclusive, rational, social movement which has understood that levity is serious business.
There’s no “and” here. It’s only the Christians exploiting the children and anybody who claims otherwise is a motherfucking liar.
Well, there’s whoever keeps paying to get rid of child labor laws
I wish that I could be so simple. My personal experience is that all humans are prone to hypocrisy and the tendency to exploit others. The Satanists are not exceptional.
The fascists are the ones doing that. Complain to them, not us.
“Love using kids as political pawns”
Are you a republican?
No, I’m not. I don’t even know what this has to do with Republicans…
By teaching them science and critical thinking? Those poor children…
They have classes for science and critical thinking in school. Do you think the Satanists are more qualified than the department of education?
They also have classes for reading, but that wouldn’t rule out a book club. I’m sure they have gym classes too, and are allowed to have after school sports “clubs”. This may surprise you, but some kids are more intelligent than average, or have a higher level of interest in a subject than is taught in classes. After school, optional clubs allow them to explore those interests.
Some kids are sexually mature at 9, 10, or 11 years old. But we don’t allow them to procreate because we know that they’re not emotionally and intellectually developed enough to understand the repercussions of sex.
Similarly, in my opinion, religion is something that should not be pushed onto children, especially in a public school setting, until they are mature enough to contemplate the issues. It’s categorically different from other special interests like sports.
Though there are also many sports fanatics who use kids and sometimes damage their well-being, but that’s another subject…
THIS CLUB IS NOT RELIGIOUS!
You have seen nearly a dozen posts pointing this out and you still ignore it and continue to spout blatantly false statements.
It’s also not being pushed on anyone. It is an optional after school club. Enough with the lies already.
I’m pretty sure that the Satanists claim to be a religion. That’s their whole thing. That’s how they get the right to do their trolling.
I’m totally cool with their religion, just as much as anyone else’s.
I don’t believe that elementary school children sought out the Satanists on their own volition. Someone coerced the kids into doing it.
You would be wrong.
So they don’t believe in doing it… but they do it.
Explain to me how it’s not just trolling?
Again, I don’t believe that elementary school children sought out the Satanists on their own. It would be almost impossible for 8 or 9 year old kids to know that the Satanists exists.
They have classes for critical thinking in elementary school in Memphis? Doubt that.
Why doubt when you can do the research and find out for sure? There is a federally mandated science curriculum that Tennessee must teach. It includes the latest scientific paradigms like evolution. It would be illegal for the Memphis school district to not teach evolution or whatever else is contentious to the religionists. The district would be sued. In fact, this has happened in school districts all over the country.
So I don’t believe the Satanists are really concerned with supplementing the kids education, nor are they explicitly qualified to do so. As I’ve said, based on the several members that I’ve met and based on their literature, they are a trolling organization meant to illustrate the hypocrisy of Christianity, and I think that’s totally fine. They have my passive support. But using kids for this purpose is inappropriate.
Nowhere in your response did you address critical thinking.
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Do you say this when you see after school Christian programs at elementary schools?
If their meetings were being publicized for political gain, yes.
I’m all for freedom of speech and of religion. Don’t get me wrong. And so the Satanists should be judged just like everyone else. In my opinion, they have completely degressed to the same level of obnoxiousness as the born again Christians, but in much less the time. As far as I’m concerned, it’s just a giant trolling organization and they shouldn’t exploit minors just to make a point.
You say that, and yet you’re against this. So you’re not really for freedom of speech and religion. You’re just for freedom of speech and religion that you like.
I’m against using minors for a political statement, regardless of the religion.
Nobody is using minors for a political statement. This is a school club. The kids had a “great time” according to the article, despite the fact that there were hate-filled bigots harassing them.
“Activities promoted by the club include science projects, community service projects, puzzles and games, nature activities, arts and crafts and snacks, the flyer said.”
No political statements here.
Meanwhile, rather than talk to the children who had a “great time” about what kinds of activities they did, the article awards several paragraphs to religious bigots so that they can spout their hate speech.
I wish I’d had access to a satanic temple club when I was in school. Instead I was coerced to participate in prayer circles. It’s a shame more people don’t protest those.
I’m glad the kids had a good time. It really sounds like fun.
I’m sorry that you were coerced. How old were you? I don’t think that children can make informed decisions about their spirituality until they’re about 16 years old, if you ask me…
I’ve met Satanists recently at my university and I’ve read enough in the news to conclude that everything they do is posturing for politics. That’s totally fine with me. But using kids for sympathy points is wrong no matter who does it. I refuse to be a hypocrite.
I was abused and brainwashed for my entire childhood by religious people. Throughout my school years we were coerced into participation in faith groups and prayer circles in school, by teachers who knew they couldn’t force us to participate so instead they offered extra credit to everyone who did and nothing to anyone who didn’t. It was and is a sick, sick system that still goes on today in public schools all over the country. In fact it’s worse today, because you now have national networks of religious activists who come up with sicker and sicker ways to circumvent laws and illegally promote their harmful religions.
As far as I’m concerned, the Satanic Temple can posture for politics all they want. What they’re doing is good work. They provide safe spaces for kids where they can learn science, logic, and valuable tools. They fight religious abuse in schools, and they seem to be the only ones doing it. And they doing it by brilliantly using the exact same methods that religious bigots use to abuse children back against them. The only reason people get mad at them is because they’re playing by the same rules that Christians have been abusing for decades. Any criticism at them can be thrown back at religious organizations one hundred thousands times over.
But truthfully, just because they exist as a corporation doesn’t make them “posturing for politics.” Certainly no more than every single church group out there is also “posturing for politics.” The Satanic Temple only exists as a reaction against these organizations, and it has far less money, infrastructure, and manpower than pretty much any other church does. To criticize them for being political is like criticizing someone for pouring a glass of water into a swimming pool. They’re doing good work, and doing far more to protect and help children than any church, or any newspaper that gives free advertising to bigots like this one is doing.
I’m sorry that you experienced abuse and I hope that you’ve moved on, if possible. You didn’t deserve abuse, of course.
Yes. I’m throwing criticism at both the Satanists and the Christians. I think that they should leave kids alone until they’re at least 16. It would be hypocritical to say that one group doing it is wrong but they other group doing it is right.
I think that the Satanists should do some charity like feeding the poor if they want get notoriety and stop looking like a joke. It’s very easy to become a distributor for the Food Bank and that could really make a difference in people’s lives.
Kids already have science classes taught by professionals. I don’t believe that the Satanists are really concerned with bolstering the kids education, but that opinion is mostly based on the few Satanists that I’ve met. They’re just not serious.
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Show me a post on Lemmy and I’ll also criticize Christians, Jews or Muslims if they’re using the kids for publicity.
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Yes I am. I couldn’t care less about Satanists because I think they’re just trolls.
I’m also frustrated to hear about minors being exploited by Christians. I hope the people responsible are punished accordingly.
Children shouldn’t have enrichment in their lives if it’s also part of an effort to ensure their right to future enrichment after they become adults? Because that’s the whole point of TST and ASSC.
Interesting. I didn’t find that mission statement anywhere on their website. It’s definitely not the point of TST.
Please read their website and tell me that it’s not just trolling.
In all honesty, I’m glad that they’ve promoted religious liberty in their own way. I just think that kids shouldn’t be cannon fodder for theirs or any other religion’s mission.
I’m a member of both the national and my local congregations of TST. It’s not just trolling. While the theatrics are 100% for show and to rile up the conservative Right, the ASSC is 100% in line with our fundamental tenets, specifically tenets 1, 3, and 5. Providing children with educational, non-superstitious after-school activities in a safe environment is a legitimate practice of our held beliefs.
OK. It’s some trolling. I guess we each have to judge the degree.
Pretty clear to me, then, that they’re just using the kids for publicity. That makes them no different from the born-again Christians who use kids for whatever purpose they’re after.
You are so dishonest, dude.
They’re helping protect kids from organizations that harm them, and you’re calling them no different simply because their work involves kids.
Tell me, how do they help kids without involving kids???
You know nothing about the Satanic Temple, you’ve just made snap judgments based on your woefully insufficient exposure to a handful of people. You didn’t read their website or mission statement before incorrectly assuming what they do.
You accuse people who are actually doing something to help of trolling, while you yourself sit here and criticize them while demonstrating total ignorance about what they do and who they are. All the while you’re acting as a shield defending the actual child abusers.
This is the most intellectually dishonest take I have seen in this sub. You should be ashamed. You need to go study up on what you’re talking about before digging deeper into your own misinformed prejudices.
How do you help kids without involving kids? Easy. Help the parents or guardians. It’s not up to a religious organization to decide what is good for someone else’s kids. I think that both the Satanists and the Christians should be banned from targeting children under the age of 16.
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