The immoral disaster that is Gaza and the West Bank does not make one state a viable solution, regardless of who runs it.
You need to engage in the practical realities of the situation. Israel has existed for 80 years, so if it suddenly stopped existing, where do the people who have been born there over 3 generations go? That is as much a problem now as it was for Palestinians in 1947. Just because it was handled terribly then doesn’t mean we should repeat the situation. It also doesn’t satisfy the reasons for why Israel was created in the first place; to have a Jewish state where, in the worst of circumstances, non-Israeli Jews can flee to. And none of that justifies the continued blockade of Gaza, of illegal settlements, or killing tens of thousands of Palestinians.
The disestablishment of Israel is a white nationalist ideal. It is also a view held by other groups as well, but that doesn’t stop it being a white nationalist desire. Presuming you aren’t a nazi, you should consider why you are aligned on this.
There are so many options we could try before concluding that Israel shouldn’t exist. Jumping straight to the most extreme option is just displaying ignorance, or that you have ulterior motives.
Israel has existed for 80 years, so if it suddenly stopped existing, where do the people who have been born there over 3 generations go?
I never said they should go anywhere. Israel not existing simply means Israel, the Jewish state, not existing, not its people being driven off.
It also doesn’t satisfy the reasons for why Israel was created in the first place; to have a Jewish state where, in the worst of circumstances, non-Israeli Jews can flee to.
Something like that never should’ve existed in the first place. Jewish “right” of return is half the reason we got the current mess. There’s no reason Jews should have a country that’ll take them unconditionally for the same reason it’d be ridiculous to suggest the same thing if Roma people decided to build a state in India.
And no, I’m not a Nazi. I’m not sure when white supremacists coopted the idea that Israel shouldn’t exist given they tend to be supportive of Israel, but anyway it’s first and foremost an Arab and Palestinian idea.
I never said they should go anywhere. Israel not existing simply means Israel, the Jewish state, not existing, not its people being driven off.
Let’s think about this for a second. If one democratic state was created, and a government elected, given population differences alone and presumed voting along established political (ie religious) lines, you’d end up with a Jewish/Israeli government rather than a Muslim/Arab government.
Two independent, internationally recognised, and supported, nations is the only viable option.
Over a very long time powersharing may be an option, but that’s not now, or any time soon.
given population differences alone and presumed voting along established political (ie religious) lines, you’d end up with a Jewish/Israeli government rather than a Muslim/Arab government.
You’d end up with a government with both groups. It’d be possible to, for example, have a large Arab party in a coalition government with a left-wing Jewish coalition. And also someone like Netanyahu would’ve never won; because Palestinians would all rally around someone else.
This is especially true in a parliamentary government like Israel; the Knesset would look much different if the Palestinian population suddenly tripled.
Yeah right wingers and Palestinians don’t go together at all. I’m saying that with more Palestinians a left wing-Palestinian government is also possible.
A Palestinian government of a single unified state is not possible. A left wing one doubly so. The demographics are far too split and far too easily divided. There is no Mandela equivalent who can appeal to both sides whilst pushing peace, and so the polarisation would continue on religious lines. It would quickly devolve to a two party state, regardless of electoral method, because it would become solely about power.
You’d just end up with an even worse situation than now, and an all out civil war. All that would be achieved is the expansion of the current Israeli state, something you claim you’re against.
Please think things through rather than just wishing for convenient solutions.
The immoral disaster that is Gaza and the West Bank does not make one state a viable solution, regardless of who runs it.
You need to engage in the practical realities of the situation. Israel has existed for 80 years, so if it suddenly stopped existing, where do the people who have been born there over 3 generations go? That is as much a problem now as it was for Palestinians in 1947. Just because it was handled terribly then doesn’t mean we should repeat the situation. It also doesn’t satisfy the reasons for why Israel was created in the first place; to have a Jewish state where, in the worst of circumstances, non-Israeli Jews can flee to. And none of that justifies the continued blockade of Gaza, of illegal settlements, or killing tens of thousands of Palestinians.
The disestablishment of Israel is a white nationalist ideal. It is also a view held by other groups as well, but that doesn’t stop it being a white nationalist desire. Presuming you aren’t a nazi, you should consider why you are aligned on this.
There are so many options we could try before concluding that Israel shouldn’t exist. Jumping straight to the most extreme option is just displaying ignorance, or that you have ulterior motives.
I never said they should go anywhere. Israel not existing simply means Israel, the Jewish state, not existing, not its people being driven off.
Something like that never should’ve existed in the first place. Jewish “right” of return is half the reason we got the current mess. There’s no reason Jews should have a country that’ll take them unconditionally for the same reason it’d be ridiculous to suggest the same thing if Roma people decided to build a state in India.
And no, I’m not a Nazi. I’m not sure when white supremacists coopted the idea that Israel shouldn’t exist given they tend to be supportive of Israel, but anyway it’s first and foremost an Arab and Palestinian idea.
Let’s think about this for a second. If one democratic state was created, and a government elected, given population differences alone and presumed voting along established political (ie religious) lines, you’d end up with a Jewish/Israeli government rather than a Muslim/Arab government.
Two independent, internationally recognised, and supported, nations is the only viable option.
Over a very long time powersharing may be an option, but that’s not now, or any time soon.
You’d end up with a government with both groups. It’d be possible to, for example, have a large Arab party in a coalition government with a left-wing Jewish coalition. And also someone like Netanyahu would’ve never won; because Palestinians would all rally around someone else.
This is especially true in a parliamentary government like Israel; the Knesset would look much different if the Palestinian population suddenly tripled.
There is no way that coalition would work together. I mean just look at the absolute mess the Israeli government coalition currently is.
It’s a complete pipedream, we can’t just wish the situation is different.
Isn’t that coalition mostly right wing?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah right wingers and Palestinians don’t go together at all. I’m saying that with more Palestinians a left wing-Palestinian government is also possible.
A Palestinian government of a single unified state is not possible. A left wing one doubly so. The demographics are far too split and far too easily divided. There is no Mandela equivalent who can appeal to both sides whilst pushing peace, and so the polarisation would continue on religious lines. It would quickly devolve to a two party state, regardless of electoral method, because it would become solely about power.
You’d just end up with an even worse situation than now, and an all out civil war. All that would be achieved is the expansion of the current Israeli state, something you claim you’re against.
Please think things through rather than just wishing for convenient solutions.