Let’s just remind people that this is not a place where they choose to go, but a place where they are forced to go, and then people hold them to a behaviour standard that they never agreed to.
It’s an interesting point and appeals to my anarchist tendencies, but was it not broadly agreed that adults take decisions on behalf of minors, because an accumulation of experience and wisdom make them better equipped so to do ?
And was it not also broadly agreed that in the absence of a suitable adult, society would take those decisions, as best they could, for such children ?
Of course, one size does not fit all, but as was recently highlighted by pandemic, a great many children are, tragically, much safer in school than not.
If school as an institution were replaced, we’d still face those problems, I think.
I suppose that’s the root of the issue with our approach to education. If schooling is mandatory then it should also be mandatory to properly meet each child’s individual needs, but in practice that doesn’t happen. As a result many children reject school and achieve poor outcomes from it.
Not sure I’m entirely with you on that one; what’s the alternative to schooling kids so that they achieve autonomy and how do you propose to make them fit in a society where is seems important to have compatibility between everyone’s behaviour if not by pushing them towards a standard ?
Part of the function of school is to get you used to doing things you don’t want to do. You’ll be donning bland clothes and going to a grey, depressing building every day once you’re an adult too.
The behaviour standards in school are much lower than in real life. In school telling your teacher to fuck off might get a demerit, or a warning, maybe isolation or in repeated circumstances suspension.
Telling your boss at McDonalds to fuck off will mean you don’t work there any more.
…Like you realise most secondary schools have the set of responsibilities and expectations on a single page that the child will sign in year 7, right?
It’s basically just symbolic and of course you can choose to not sign it and will still go to the school, but to say that they never agreed to it, atleast in my experience is a stretch. Though obviously there is a lot more nuance in this conversation.
The reality is underfunding of both schools, as well as sports/youth clubs, the schools being unable to make effective punishments, and parents not caring what their child gets up to both online and in school likely are the key things to blame.
Plus the effect on the psyche of children growing up in a world which they know is fucked and seeing genuinely so little to improve it probably doesn’t help.
That bullshit piece of paper seemingly everyone signs is, in my opinion, the dumbest thing there is. As a child you are effectively forced to sign said document, and as a minor you really can’t enter into binding agreements anyway. Both of which do not improve the ‘legality’ of those documents.
I was fairly well behaved, I’d say, but I never felt any sort of reason to specifically follow that guide, especially as it was forced on us. I expect a lot of other more self-aware children feel similar when still in school.
Overall it’s just a symptom of the proper resources missing.
It’s not a legal contract. A business has no obligation to allow you on the premises so a code of conduct is expected, there’s an unwritten one for every business you go into. Schools just take time to explain theirs.
Let’s just remind people that this is not a place where they choose to go, but a place where they are forced to go, and then people hold them to a behaviour standard that they never agreed to.
It’s an interesting point and appeals to my anarchist tendencies, but was it not broadly agreed that adults take decisions on behalf of minors, because an accumulation of experience and wisdom make them better equipped so to do ?
And was it not also broadly agreed that in the absence of a suitable adult, society would take those decisions, as best they could, for such children ?
Of course, one size does not fit all, but as was recently highlighted by pandemic, a great many children are, tragically, much safer in school than not.
If school as an institution were replaced, we’d still face those problems, I think.
Objection! Assumes facts not in evidence. :P
I suppose that’s the root of the issue with our approach to education. If schooling is mandatory then it should also be mandatory to properly meet each child’s individual needs, but in practice that doesn’t happen. As a result many children reject school and achieve poor outcomes from it.
Let’s just remind ourselves that socialising and educating kids is always going to involve them doing things that they don’t want to do.
Not sure I’m entirely with you on that one; what’s the alternative to schooling kids so that they achieve autonomy and how do you propose to make them fit in a society where is seems important to have compatibility between everyone’s behaviour if not by pushing them towards a standard ?
Right? This is “playing music loudly on the public bus because I never agreed to be quiet” energy
You are correct. School does prepare children for adult life, employment and responsibilities.
Can you imagine what would happen if it was up to the kids to decide if they went to school? Haha…
Part of the function of school is to get you used to doing things you don’t want to do. You’ll be donning bland clothes and going to a grey, depressing building every day once you’re an adult too.
Wait, not bullying, not disrupting others etc is something we have to ask consent for now?
The behaviour standards in school are much lower than in real life. In school telling your teacher to fuck off might get a demerit, or a warning, maybe isolation or in repeated circumstances suspension.
Telling your boss at McDonalds to fuck off will mean you don’t work there any more.
Calm down there Che Guevara
…Like you realise most secondary schools have the set of responsibilities and expectations on a single page that the child will sign in year 7, right?
It’s basically just symbolic and of course you can choose to not sign it and will still go to the school, but to say that they never agreed to it, atleast in my experience is a stretch. Though obviously there is a lot more nuance in this conversation.
The reality is underfunding of both schools, as well as sports/youth clubs, the schools being unable to make effective punishments, and parents not caring what their child gets up to both online and in school likely are the key things to blame.
Plus the effect on the psyche of children growing up in a world which they know is fucked and seeing genuinely so little to improve it probably doesn’t help.
That bullshit piece of paper seemingly everyone signs is, in my opinion, the dumbest thing there is. As a child you are effectively forced to sign said document, and as a minor you really can’t enter into binding agreements anyway. Both of which do not improve the ‘legality’ of those documents.
I was fairly well behaved, I’d say, but I never felt any sort of reason to specifically follow that guide, especially as it was forced on us. I expect a lot of other more self-aware children feel similar when still in school.
Overall it’s just a symptom of the proper resources missing.
It’s not a legal contract. A business has no obligation to allow you on the premises so a code of conduct is expected, there’s an unwritten one for every business you go into. Schools just take time to explain theirs.
who cares if they agree to it, they are kids, they dont know how they should behave.