Argentina's President-elect Javier Milei said on Friday that the closure of the country's central bank, a signature campaign pledge, was a "non-negotiable matter", according to a statement from his office posted on social media platform X.
TL;DR: Basically, in the US at least, Libertarians are spoiled white guys who don’t even understand how good they have it and have Ayn Rand power fantasies that they’ll make their own way and the rest of the world has just been dragging them down.
A couple of my college buddies are full on Ludwig Von Mises/Murray Rothbard anarcho-capitalist nutjobs. The basic conceit is that all governments and states are illegitimate uses of force and are drags on the free functioning of the economy. Left with no “coercive” governments, people will competitively self-organize into private collectives to replace all governmental services, and all resources will flow to their best and natural use. It’s absurdly naive and ignores absolutely everything about human nature and even the de facto reality of their desired end state.
So somehow private property will continue to exist and be protected by voluntary courts and security, and funny how it works out that in this case my buddies get to keep the fruits of the privilege enjoyed by centuries of their ancestors and built up in a decidedly non anarcho-capitalist system. All existing government property will be sold off and the proceeds distributed to… someone? No word on how natural monopolies like the best water route between two river ports will be handled, but it will be privately negotiated and definitely perfect!
It will be a utopia of people pulling themselves up by the bootstraps and not letting silly things like “personal safety” or “living wage” or “stewardship of resources” get in the way of making the completely even-handed and non-coercive deals that all people will make with the private entities that spring up to replace governments, but only VOLUNTARILY! People definitely won’t make deals they don’t like, and that reduce their future power, to avoid death in a “market” with limited opportunities. They definitely won’t leave their shares (or whatever) to their children and recreate all the same social structures we have now, but with corporate self-interest as literally the only governing norm.
Now, I suppose you could end up with corporate bodies that are outcompeted by “fairer” competitors (ignoring, of course, all first mover advantages and the willingness to protect profits by violent force that we already see in so many times and places), or maybe certain security and judicial corporations will make agreements with each other and install themselves as a layer over the more economically productive companies and collect fees that are definitely not taxes. Maybe some of them will be the “fairer” entities.
But where does that leave you? Basically, our current world is already at least a little better than the libertarians’ best-case scenario, and what their system really does is tell people to give up, that they are not worth one cent more than the economic value they can provide to someone else, and that they deserve no voice in the governance of their lives beyond what they can take.
How this doesn’t descend into competing warlord fiefdoms, eventually to be swept away by spasms of violence (in this system, “competition” is just a euphemism for politics and war), is beyond me. With some luck, it might lead to some parts of the world on a tortuously slow and uneven march in the vague direction of egalitarian governance to moderate the use of coercive force. In that case, CONGRATULATIONS! You’ve landed the world right back where it started, but now with millions dead and the Earth in even worse shape than it would have been.
I mean, the anarcho-capitalists are fairly extreme, but the libertarians in general seem to be people who want to lock in the benefits they’ve got in the current system and remove any barriers to fucking over people who don’t have them. They also seem to forget that you can’t just declare that coercive force no longer exists. The best you can do is try to have some sort of consensus to apply it fairly and sparingly and in the pursuit of noble ends. All of their proposals are just variations on directing the thrust of that power to enforce the status quo when it comes to property holders.
The crazy thing is I’m not even particularly ideological, and I imagine our friends on the .ml domains would not be fans of me. I am just in favor of measures to moderate the worst tendencies of capitalism and to preserve the fact that no one succeeds in a vacuum, things like paying my fair share so people can have safety and opportunity. The Libertarians are just not what they claim to be, either because they’re evil or naive.
Agreed. The only thing to add to this is that government systems are voluntary and propped up by the people. The reason our current system actually works so well is because there is already a strong sense of local governance and accountability albeit on some rails. Each state defines the types of organized entities that if will sanction. In NJ for example, we have townships, but you could also register using other systems like village, etc. If they wanted to appease the libertarians a little, they could potentially allow for that experiment to exist in the same way that Indian reservations are their own systems.
What an amazing, cojent and objective description. You’ve definitely done your homework. Glad to see you passing on your good knowledge to someone more ignorant
I can almost understand the Personal Liberties Libertarian, which I think is what the philosophy was originally supposed to be about. But we often see Corpo-National Libertarians or Totally-Not-An-Anarchist-I-Swear Libertarians, and both of those are baffling to me.
I’ve meet way too many libertarians who don’t want their taxes to go fund cycle lanes because they don’t ride a bicycle. “it does not benefit me” they say while they fail to see that people in bicycles mean fewer people in cars clogging up traffic.
Libertarian world view cannot even see past their nose
It always seems like “common sense” (short-sighted and moronically simplistic) solutions to problems they don’t understand but waffle on about something tangentally related to make it sound like they do.
It’s very simple. They incorporate as a superperson. You’re a human, somewhat rich. You get a corporation. You put it on like a magic suit and you have super-immunity (impunity) from laws, you can do anything.
The freedom that they want is the freedom to exercise their power (money) with no bad consequences for them.
This move is a necessity in Argentina’s Political and Economical situation, by shutting down the Central Bank (and subsequently moving to Dollars) Milei is killing the Politicians’ (long standing and abused) Ability to finance themselves with monetary emissions (their Agendas and Deficient governments just to not say corrupt money laundering), which is the cause of inflation, which makes all Argentines poorer by the hour.
It is if not his biggest, one of the major promises on his campaign and the one most people voted him for, Argentines understand (as seen trough Random Street interviews) that this will create major hiccup on Economy while they transition to dollar, but given it’s long tern effects are willing to put up with it
The long term effects are going to be serious whiplash. The monetary regime would go from severe inflation to super low inflation (below what Argentina needs). They will essentially be using Argentinian Government funds to buy US dollars, thereby helping the US keep its inflation under control.
That’s good for the US, but Argentina may fall into a recession. Growing economies need a growing money supply or businesses will not be able to borrow money to expand. By essentially hitching their economy to the slower growing US economy, Argentina is ensuring that their businesses pay high interest rates to borrow money. The US government is paying you 5%, risk free. Why tf would anyone loan money to Argentina less than 10-15%?
Remember how US tech companies all fired people at the same time when the Federal Reserve increased interest rates (it happened)? That’s what will happen to many companies in Argentina at the same time.
Edit: lol, he was just lying about “dollarization” for votes because it’s nuts:
He added no dollarization was planned in the short-term, as fiscal and monetary stabilization were need, the first source said.
Yes, its gonna be serious and difficult, but like said they are willing to put up with it… with they I mean the 55% that voted him of course…
And no, the dollarization was not a lie, like he said (his whole campaign…) it’s for the long term, first comes solving the gigantic Economical Deficit the State currently generates, then it’s Public Organization’s and then cutting taxes, only then he’ll move forward with it obviously because otherwise is suicide.
And this is very important to remark: News Outlets other than Javier Milei’s Official Twitter Account or the Government’s Official Channel (after December 10) ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED. You may think this is just him shielding against media “calling him out” but there is a serious issue with Argentina’s News outlets: They are funded by the current government and are VERY functional to it. Other International Media arent necessarily but yeah it’s obviously more profitable to report “Argentina’s new president is A NAZI” than “Argentina’s New President Denies the Made up Number of Dictatorship deaths” (which just in case, the authorities that made up the number did confess to making it up in national TV)
Hell, its even as bad he’s been putting “Official Communication” posts to clarify that what the media is saying about his proposals or plans is false, including those claims of him backing down on Dollarization.
I’m sure crime will not rise up when people have no food because they don’t have dollars, I’m sure people will not go out violently on the streets and raise hell, yes the policy may be be beneficial to those who have their on dollar reserve, but the rest? Save my comment, and hope that doesn’t happen.
You mean the heists that have happened since August of this year when the dollar was even lower than now? Or are we talking about actual big amounts of people dying for not having money or food and insecurity striving like in the pandemic Two Years ago? (Argentina being one of the worst casualties rate of the world with covid, thanks to the current government)
Yeah that says a lot about Argentina. If you have two brain cells even, just to rub together a little bit, you realize this is an idiotic idea, incompatible with taking part in the modern, global economy.
Great! A majority of the unwashed masses, half of whom are illiterate. I’m not really interested in what another illiterate person thinks about economics, either. Shows a total lack of appreciation for Argentina’s most imminent, existential problems, and now you have a majority of the country tricked by a charlatan, and they’re excited about it!
Thanks, social media, for giving know-nothings an “equal” voice. /s
What are you on about with Social Media? For the WHOLE elections Social’s were INUNDATED with Ads and Publicity of Fear Campaign against Milei (from the current government and friends which Official Spending numbers could have paid a lot of debt mind you)
The fact that most people voted for him still is a telling that they are not able to be tricked.
Well, yeah that’s also what democracy is about, no matter your conditions you have a voice, regardless of how educated that is… cough 45% cough . But most of all why would they need to all be Economists to vote for the guy that IS an economist and his economic proposals at that when his opponents have given 0 Proposals ALL COMBINED
Obviosly he’s a Moron, any person with 2 Braincells would run for President, Win and continue the status quo stealing from Argentines like the previous 20 Years politicians have, afterall there’s been no consequences for them.
But he’s not doing that, instead he’s complied with his campaing promises and pushes to break Argentina’s decadence with a radical change that so many promised and backed out after winning, putting himself at the stake most of all
So yeah, absolutely crazy from him. Voters? About to be defined
i can usually understand most political views, but libertarians just make me confused
You are still not half as confused as the average libertarian.
TL;DR: Basically, in the US at least, Libertarians are spoiled white guys who don’t even understand how good they have it and have Ayn Rand power fantasies that they’ll make their own way and the rest of the world has just been dragging them down.
A couple of my college buddies are full on Ludwig Von Mises/Murray Rothbard anarcho-capitalist nutjobs. The basic conceit is that all governments and states are illegitimate uses of force and are drags on the free functioning of the economy. Left with no “coercive” governments, people will competitively self-organize into private collectives to replace all governmental services, and all resources will flow to their best and natural use. It’s absurdly naive and ignores absolutely everything about human nature and even the de facto reality of their desired end state.
So somehow private property will continue to exist and be protected by voluntary courts and security, and funny how it works out that in this case my buddies get to keep the fruits of the privilege enjoyed by centuries of their ancestors and built up in a decidedly non anarcho-capitalist system. All existing government property will be sold off and the proceeds distributed to… someone? No word on how natural monopolies like the best water route between two river ports will be handled, but it will be privately negotiated and definitely perfect!
It will be a utopia of people pulling themselves up by the bootstraps and not letting silly things like “personal safety” or “living wage” or “stewardship of resources” get in the way of making the completely even-handed and non-coercive deals that all people will make with the private entities that spring up to replace governments, but only VOLUNTARILY! People definitely won’t make deals they don’t like, and that reduce their future power, to avoid death in a “market” with limited opportunities. They definitely won’t leave their shares (or whatever) to their children and recreate all the same social structures we have now, but with corporate self-interest as literally the only governing norm.
Now, I suppose you could end up with corporate bodies that are outcompeted by “fairer” competitors (ignoring, of course, all first mover advantages and the willingness to protect profits by violent force that we already see in so many times and places), or maybe certain security and judicial corporations will make agreements with each other and install themselves as a layer over the more economically productive companies and collect fees that are definitely not taxes. Maybe some of them will be the “fairer” entities.
But where does that leave you? Basically, our current world is already at least a little better than the libertarians’ best-case scenario, and what their system really does is tell people to give up, that they are not worth one cent more than the economic value they can provide to someone else, and that they deserve no voice in the governance of their lives beyond what they can take.
How this doesn’t descend into competing warlord fiefdoms, eventually to be swept away by spasms of violence (in this system, “competition” is just a euphemism for politics and war), is beyond me. With some luck, it might lead to some parts of the world on a tortuously slow and uneven march in the vague direction of egalitarian governance to moderate the use of coercive force. In that case, CONGRATULATIONS! You’ve landed the world right back where it started, but now with millions dead and the Earth in even worse shape than it would have been.
Comment saved because my god I get so tired of trying to explain this to people, and I’ve never done so as eloquently as this.
I mean, the anarcho-capitalists are fairly extreme, but the libertarians in general seem to be people who want to lock in the benefits they’ve got in the current system and remove any barriers to fucking over people who don’t have them. They also seem to forget that you can’t just declare that coercive force no longer exists. The best you can do is try to have some sort of consensus to apply it fairly and sparingly and in the pursuit of noble ends. All of their proposals are just variations on directing the thrust of that power to enforce the status quo when it comes to property holders.
The crazy thing is I’m not even particularly ideological, and I imagine our friends on the .ml domains would not be fans of me. I am just in favor of measures to moderate the worst tendencies of capitalism and to preserve the fact that no one succeeds in a vacuum, things like paying my fair share so people can have safety and opportunity. The Libertarians are just not what they claim to be, either because they’re evil or naive.
Agreed. The only thing to add to this is that government systems are voluntary and propped up by the people. The reason our current system actually works so well is because there is already a strong sense of local governance and accountability albeit on some rails. Each state defines the types of organized entities that if will sanction. In NJ for example, we have townships, but you could also register using other systems like village, etc. If they wanted to appease the libertarians a little, they could potentially allow for that experiment to exist in the same way that Indian reservations are their own systems.
People have effectively set up libertarian reservations for themselves. It never goes well.
What an amazing, cojent and objective description. You’ve definitely done your homework. Glad to see you passing on your good knowledge to someone more ignorant
I can almost understand the Personal Liberties Libertarian, which I think is what the philosophy was originally supposed to be about. But we often see Corpo-National Libertarians or Totally-Not-An-Anarchist-I-Swear Libertarians, and both of those are baffling to me.
Yea, the only brand I ever sympathized with was the “Hey man, just let me smoke weed”-bertarians… but all those guys jumped ship a long time ago.
Now it’s mostly just “I don’t want to pay for schools”-bertarians… and that’s ironic because those assholes really need an education.
I’ve meet way too many libertarians who don’t want their taxes to go fund cycle lanes because they don’t ride a bicycle. “it does not benefit me” they say while they fail to see that people in bicycles mean fewer people in cars clogging up traffic.
Libertarian world view cannot even see past their nose
You’ve understood.
It always seems like “common sense” (short-sighted and moronically simplistic) solutions to problems they don’t understand but waffle on about something tangentally related to make it sound like they do.
I don’t think most of it is common sense. I’m a voluntarist, which is an ethical position for me.
it’s like I’m always with them for the first few seconds, then they just go way off base out of knowhere at some unexpected point in time
It’s very simple. They incorporate as a superperson. You’re a human, somewhat rich. You get a corporation. You put it on like a magic suit and you have super-immunity (impunity) from laws, you can do anything.
The freedom that they want is the freedom to exercise their power (money) with no bad consequences for them.
It’s a simple theology: “Me first. Fuck you. Every man for himself.”
While it fits great on a bumper sticker, it’s a suboptimal strategy to build an economy, nation-state, or anything really.
It’s neoliberalism
This move is a necessity in Argentina’s Political and Economical situation, by shutting down the Central Bank (and subsequently moving to Dollars) Milei is killing the Politicians’ (long standing and abused) Ability to finance themselves with monetary emissions (their Agendas and Deficient governments just to not say corrupt money laundering), which is the cause of inflation, which makes all Argentines poorer by the hour.
It is if not his biggest, one of the major promises on his campaign and the one most people voted him for, Argentines understand (as seen trough Random Street interviews) that this will create major hiccup on Economy while they transition to dollar, but given it’s long tern effects are willing to put up with it
Sounds like they want to heal the country by murdering it’s economy.
Amputating a Cancer-Infected Leg to save a whole body is a common practice. The prosthetic replacement comes later
But they are doing it with a chainsaw and set to let the patient bleed out.
Like we have been for the past 2 decades!
Best of luck with that.
The long term effects are going to be serious whiplash. The monetary regime would go from severe inflation to super low inflation (below what Argentina needs). They will essentially be using Argentinian Government funds to buy US dollars, thereby helping the US keep its inflation under control.
That’s good for the US, but Argentina may fall into a recession. Growing economies need a growing money supply or businesses will not be able to borrow money to expand. By essentially hitching their economy to the slower growing US economy, Argentina is ensuring that their businesses pay high interest rates to borrow money. The US government is paying you 5%, risk free. Why tf would anyone loan money to Argentina less than 10-15%?
Remember how US tech companies all fired people at the same time when the Federal Reserve increased interest rates (it happened)? That’s what will happen to many companies in Argentina at the same time.
Edit: lol, he was just lying about “dollarization” for votes because it’s nuts:
https://news.yahoo.com/finance/news/milei-economic-team-led-former-175214678.html
Yes, its gonna be serious and difficult, but like said they are willing to put up with it… with they I mean the 55% that voted him of course…
And no, the dollarization was not a lie, like he said (his whole campaign…) it’s for the long term, first comes solving the gigantic Economical Deficit the State currently generates, then it’s Public Organization’s and then cutting taxes, only then he’ll move forward with it obviously because otherwise is suicide.
And this is very important to remark: News Outlets other than Javier Milei’s Official Twitter Account or the Government’s Official Channel (after December 10) ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED. You may think this is just him shielding against media “calling him out” but there is a serious issue with Argentina’s News outlets: They are funded by the current government and are VERY functional to it. Other International Media arent necessarily but yeah it’s obviously more profitable to report “Argentina’s new president is A NAZI” than “Argentina’s New President Denies the Made up Number of Dictatorship deaths” (which just in case, the authorities that made up the number did confess to making it up in national TV)
Hell, its even as bad he’s been putting “Official Communication” posts to clarify that what the media is saying about his proposals or plans is false, including those claims of him backing down on Dollarization.
I’m sure crime will not rise up when people have no food because they don’t have dollars, I’m sure people will not go out violently on the streets and raise hell, yes the policy may be be beneficial to those who have their on dollar reserve, but the rest? Save my comment, and hope that doesn’t happen.
You mean the heists that have happened since August of this year when the dollar was even lower than now? Or are we talking about actual big amounts of people dying for not having money or food and insecurity striving like in the pandemic Two Years ago? (Argentina being one of the worst casualties rate of the world with covid, thanks to the current government)
Yeah that says a lot about Argentina. If you have two brain cells even, just to rub together a little bit, you realize this is an idiotic idea, incompatible with taking part in the modern, global economy.
Except that there’s countries that did the exact same thing and are doing fine. There’s also the ones that dont and it shows it’s a gamble.
Not taking the Gamble however means to take the risk-free secure pathway to Venezuela and luckily majority of Argentines understood that.
Great! A majority of the unwashed masses, half of whom are illiterate. I’m not really interested in what another illiterate person thinks about economics, either. Shows a total lack of appreciation for Argentina’s most imminent, existential problems, and now you have a majority of the country tricked by a charlatan, and they’re excited about it!
Thanks, social media, for giving know-nothings an “equal” voice. /s
What are you on about with Social Media? For the WHOLE elections Social’s were INUNDATED with Ads and Publicity of Fear Campaign against Milei (from the current government and friends which Official Spending numbers could have paid a lot of debt mind you)
The fact that most people voted for him still is a telling that they are not able to be tricked.
Well, yeah that’s also what democracy is about, no matter your conditions you have a voice, regardless of how educated that is… cough 45% cough . But most of all why would they need to all be Economists to vote for the guy that IS an economist and his economic proposals at that when his opponents have given 0 Proposals ALL COMBINED
You don’t need to be an economist to see he’s a moron. Just listen to him for five minutes. Obviously, you got tricked, though, so…
Innumerate and illiterate!
Obviosly he’s a Moron, any person with 2 Braincells would run for President, Win and continue the status quo stealing from Argentines like the previous 20 Years politicians have, afterall there’s been no consequences for them.
But he’s not doing that, instead he’s complied with his campaing promises and pushes to break Argentina’s decadence with a radical change that so many promised and backed out after winning, putting himself at the stake most of all
So yeah, absolutely crazy from him. Voters? About to be defined