The far-right and anti-Islam populist Geert Wilders is heading for a massive parliamentary election victory. It's one of the biggest political upsets in Dutch politics since World War II and one that is bound to send shockwaves through Europe.
In the larger context, it appears to me that the author is arguing that when there are bad faith actors in a larger group, it becomes the responsibility of the larger group to denounce the actions of the fringe.
It is not the same as saying the whole is responsible for the actions of the few.
This isn’t a novel idea in our society.
-We expect all Catholics to denounce the actions of pedophile priests, and if they don’t, we do view them as part of a systemic problem
-We expect all white people to denounce racist behaviour when other white people do it, and if they don’t, we do view them as part of a systemic problem
-We expect all men to denounce mysogonistic and sexually predatory behaviour when they see other men do it, and if they don’t, we see them as part of a systemic problem
If I were to take any issue with the original post, it seems to imply that the broader community IS silent on extremism. I don’t think that this is actually true. I think that the media systemically dampens the voices of Muslim people, EXCEPT when they have extremist sound bytes, which causes an incorrect perception of the general Muslim sentiment.
So, that is where the error is.
NOT with the idea that it’s the responsibility of anyone in any group to call out bad behaviour within their group… But that they don’t appear to believe that it is happening.
We don’t expect all Catholics to do that. No. In fact, we don’t care if they do that. Denouncing. A simple verbal response means nothing. We expect them to take action to stop what’s going on. And make effort to keep it from happening again. I don’t care if they denounce it ever. As long as they take steps to make sure it doesn’t happen.
It’s nice to have people denounce racist behavior. But what would be nicer is if people simply just didn’t tolerate racist behavior and didn’t associate with people who behave in a bigoted or racist fashion. I don’t care if they denounce it. So many people do that and then never make any steps towards distancing themselves from it. Actions speak louder than words.
And again no we don’t expect all men to denounce mysogyny, etc etc etc. We expect people on the whole not to support it and not to further it.
If you are in a room with a pedophile, a racist, or a misogynist. People will generally laud you for coming to the victims defense. No doubt. But if you had nothing to do with it. Don’t share the the offending viewpoints of the offender. Never have made any actions to give anyone any indication that you might. You don’t need to say anything. And pretending that people do is pretending that the whole group is responsible for it when they aren’t. That would be like saying all conservatives everywhere need to. Constantly apologize for the thousands of people murdered at the hands of far-right extremist constantly there. I think that they should take some culpability from it and perhaps work to change their culture a little bit. But I don’t expect or want them to apologize for it necessarily. I would rather they actually take action to keep it from happening.
That’s not at all what they said.
Directly quoting
youthem fromyourtheir previous comment.In the larger context, it appears to me that the author is arguing that when there are bad faith actors in a larger group, it becomes the responsibility of the larger group to denounce the actions of the fringe.
It is not the same as saying the whole is responsible for the actions of the few.
This isn’t a novel idea in our society.
-We expect all Catholics to denounce the actions of pedophile priests, and if they don’t, we do view them as part of a systemic problem
-We expect all white people to denounce racist behaviour when other white people do it, and if they don’t, we do view them as part of a systemic problem
-We expect all men to denounce mysogonistic and sexually predatory behaviour when they see other men do it, and if they don’t, we see them as part of a systemic problem
If I were to take any issue with the original post, it seems to imply that the broader community IS silent on extremism. I don’t think that this is actually true. I think that the media systemically dampens the voices of Muslim people, EXCEPT when they have extremist sound bytes, which causes an incorrect perception of the general Muslim sentiment.
So, that is where the error is.
NOT with the idea that it’s the responsibility of anyone in any group to call out bad behaviour within their group… But that they don’t appear to believe that it is happening.
We don’t expect all Catholics to do that. No. In fact, we don’t care if they do that. Denouncing. A simple verbal response means nothing. We expect them to take action to stop what’s going on. And make effort to keep it from happening again. I don’t care if they denounce it ever. As long as they take steps to make sure it doesn’t happen.
It’s nice to have people denounce racist behavior. But what would be nicer is if people simply just didn’t tolerate racist behavior and didn’t associate with people who behave in a bigoted or racist fashion. I don’t care if they denounce it. So many people do that and then never make any steps towards distancing themselves from it. Actions speak louder than words.
And again no we don’t expect all men to denounce mysogyny, etc etc etc. We expect people on the whole not to support it and not to further it.
If you are in a room with a pedophile, a racist, or a misogynist. People will generally laud you for coming to the victims defense. No doubt. But if you had nothing to do with it. Don’t share the the offending viewpoints of the offender. Never have made any actions to give anyone any indication that you might. You don’t need to say anything. And pretending that people do is pretending that the whole group is responsible for it when they aren’t. That would be like saying all conservatives everywhere need to. Constantly apologize for the thousands of people murdered at the hands of far-right extremist constantly there. I think that they should take some culpability from it and perhaps work to change their culture a little bit. But I don’t expect or want them to apologize for it necessarily. I would rather they actually take action to keep it from happening.
Awesome, so you’re taking an even STRONGER stance on the responsibility of everyone in those communities.
The author of the original post, by my read, was suggesting that same responsibility should exist in the Muslim community.
Yeah it’s funny that this reads as argumentative when it actually goes even further in supporting the point they replied to.