It’s a perfect solution when all you need is a boogieman to “protect the nation” against. You get to show that you hurt the boogieman, and the wounds you inflict ensure the boogieman’s continuous survival.
Israel has been doing this since 1949 - I think the Palestinians by now know the Israelis didn’t do white supremacist settler-colonialism in order to be their friends.
It is wrong to kill people but we have the death penalty for killers.
It is wrong to imprison people but we have prisons for criminals
Any thinking person can see from the start that Muslims are not willing to live on peace with Jews or anywhere whereas Israel has always been willing to live in peace
Any thinking person can see from the start that Muslims are not willing to live on peace with Jews or anywhere whereas Israel has always been willing to live in peace
Israel’s “peace” is built upon land they violently seized from the Palestinians, from 1948 until today.
You can look up the 1948 partition plan for starters, which Israel accepted and arabs went to war over. Israel ‘violently seized’ the land by defending themselves.
Under the British mandate, the Ottoman empire there were caps and restrictions on how many Jews could live in Palestine while there were none on Muslims. In every Muslim country there were discriminatory laws against Jews.
The Jewish was position was that there is some state to which Jews are free to immigrate, ie the Jews fleeing Europe. There have always been Jews in Palestine, Jews are the natives, but not a state for 2000 years.
In the Jewish state arabs live freely and it was always the position of Jews that arabs can live freely in Israel and that there can be a Palestinian state (in addition to Jordan which was a part of Palestine)
The Arab position- based on islam- is there can be no Jewish state at all. They are fascist, they think the whole world should be Islamic. They launch terror attacks all over the world against non muslims- in India, armenia, Europe, the USA, Africa…
No pals were displaced before the war. The area in the south of israel- the negev- is a desert where very few people lived and no one lived at the time.
There have always been Jews in Palestine, your assumption is that vacant, uninhabited, never developed land is somehow reserved for arabs when Jews are the native people of the land.
The Jewish position is that there be some land for Jews in israel- the land to which they are native- and the Muslim position is that there be none, not 1 inch, that it is all a Muslim state like all the other Muslim states which have had discriminatory laws against Jews for centuries.
All the further partitions are in the context of Arab wars against Israel, until 1967 Jordan controlled the west bank, Egypt Gaza, yet they did not make a Palestinian state… They launched wars against Israel in 1956, 67, 73…
Yes inside israel arabs live freely and don’t want to leave are be a part of Palestine, pals have been offered states on the WB etc… Numerous times and have always rejected.
Oh poor Palestinians had no choice but to kidnap, rape and murder over a thousand people.
Israel provoked them by bombing them, afterwards. Provocation in hindsight or something.
Oh, poor Israelis, all they were doing was conducting a genocide of an entire people for 75 years, all this death is totally unwarranted!
I refuse to feel sorry for any Israeli killed by anyone, so long as they’re hellbent on wiping Arabs off the planet. Those babies that were killed were just future IDF soldiers, waiting for their chance to put a boot on a Palestinian neck and a bullet in their brain.
I hope you see the irony of your comment. You do see it, right? I’m not gonna say you’re wrong, because you’re not. But you know what? Hurting your oppressors feels so good. And it’s better to die on your feet with a gun in your bloody hands, then laying on the ground with a boot on your neck.
I was going for a simple reply, that neither atrocity makes the other right, something which cuts both ways since historic times in this matter - but that statemrnt of yours, that’s off the deep end.
Frankly, the very notion of someone who “feels so good” killing babies, it disgusts me.
Israel is really in the drivers seat of this conflict though. You can imagine a reality where they had opened borders with Gaza and given them voices in the government. Where they’re all these foreign funds for to build schools and libraries and pumping in tvs and video games and internet and helping keep the streets safe, and where it’s much harder for a kid to say “I’m going to join a millitant groups” and where, even if Palestine is fighting it, we’re moving towards peace. There’s still violence from time to time, but it’s declining.
You cant imagine the same story with Palestine. They have no power in the current relationship to give anything to Israel afaik. They can’t build schools there even if they wanted to. So (to some extent, and acknowledging that it’s horrible horrible horrible for the people involved) the lashing out isn’t surprising there. It’s not good, but also not surprising. The two atrocities are very very different (imo).
I admire your optimism, I really do. When imagining a reality where Israel opens its borders to Gaza, what I see is Israel descended into a warzone - hundreds of thousands of dead Israelis, slaughtered in schools, homes, streets and hospitals in the name of muslim holy war, jewish genocide and the mantra of Palestine “from the river to the sea”.
It’s an entirely different situation in the West Bank, which some might consider odd, given that Gaza has essentially been a sovereign state, whilst the W.B has been under tight Israeli control. The W.B Palestinians have amongst the highest living standards in the entire Middle East, with schools, universities, internet and TVs. Indeed, it is quite possible that the situation in Gaza would’ve been far better had Israel not withdrawn in '05, but it is hard to make predictions about alternate timelines.
I think it has been very clear what Israel wants from peace, in fact they’ve already made it once, with Egypt. In exchange for recognition, the promise of peace and a few other concessions, they ceded an area of land larger than modern-day Israel.
That is the key point that palestinian leadership has never been willing to offer in negotiation - recognition of Israel (as rightful owner of its territories) and the promise of peace (officially renouncing any claims over those same territories).
Yeah but pals have been offered peace and a state from the beginning. They are at war because they have declared war against the existence of Jews. They deserve to die at this point
So you don’t think there should be any Jewish state when they’re are dozens of Muslim states and are against Israelis defending themselves. You are a fascist
Don’t you dare blame the Jews for the actions of the Israeli government, you sick antisemitic fuck. Take that nazi propaganda out of here. The only good nazi is a dead nazi, and you and everyone who thinks like you should be lined up against a wall and shot.
All the people that never had a word to say in defense of Palestinians in the decades prior, who as of Oct 7 are experts on the region and know exactly how Hamas appeared out of the clear blue sky that very morning, while Israel was sending shipments of marshmallow dreams and unicorns to Palestine for the decades prior.
They were expelled because they started a war, Israel accepted the partition whereas pals did not. Israel was explicit they did not want to displace anyone. Many arabs live in Israel to this day. If there was no war there would have been no expulsion.
Pals have been offered states numerous times and even offered right of return for some refugees with compensation to the rest.
And even though you did not answer my question I will answer yours- no I do not think the arabs who were forced out in a war and who have been fighting a war since then should be allowed back en masse when they openly say they wish to destroy Israel. And if you want to re visit past injustices to say there are some arabs who should return, have land given back, then you also need to consider the Jews which were kicked out of the west bank like from Hebron and the Jews which were kicked out of Arab countries and of course the Jews which were kicked out of Europe. If you launch a war, lose , you can’t ask for a do ever where you get everything back and keep everything you took, it is ridiculous. At the outset the Jews were willing to accept a tiny state, that they were fleeing from the Holocaust, that Jews were living in refugee camps until 1948 when Israel was established. That Jews are the natives of the land, were making it prosperous, are integral to the history, and the arabs sided with the Nazis in WW2. They are truly disgusting, is it really so horrible to live around Jews , in their native land. You think the fact the pals had to move 50 miles down the road is some horrible injustice ?
From the start of the conflict and throughout the modern era Israel has always been willing to live in peace with the pals despite their belligerence making numerous offers. Jews never asked for welfare like the Muslim immigrants coming to Europe, they developed the land and caused many arabs to come. It is the pals who have belligerent, following fundamentalist islam saying there can be no Jewish state, everywhere has to be a Muslim state.
I no longer have the cognitive dissonance to condemn any Palestinian for resisting Israel.
If you fight against Israel, you’re called Hamas - No matter who you are or what your opinions are. I simply will not condemn Hamas knowing that most of the “Hamas” being targeted at actually children armed with nothing more than stones and grief. I won’t condemn people driven to violence and aggression by a regime that is a million times more violent and aggressive.
Hamas was a tool of Israel and the people who spend endless days arguing over Hamas are the victims of this tool - The only way to defeat the ghost of Hamas is to support them. Only then does the Israeli propaganda fall apart, and thus the necessity of Israel to maintain Hamas as a scapegoat for terror.
If you fight against Israel, you’re called Hamas - No matter who you are or what your opinions are.
Now apply this to pretty much ANY social issue today and you’ve now understood how we got where we are.
if the palestinian state ceases to exist, then they’re just back to being normal terrorists like hamas… presumably they’ll have to integrate into Egyptian society, etc
Seems like the sort of thing that, in addition to being morally abhorrent, would drive more Palestinians to become terrorists.
It truly is the worst long term “solution”. You’re not gonna make friends by bombing them, I thought that much would have been obvious.
I don’t think they want friends.
The military industrial complex doesn’t discriminate
It’s a perfect solution when all you need is a boogieman to “protect the nation” against. You get to show that you hurt the boogieman, and the wounds you inflict ensure the boogieman’s continuous survival.
Israel has been doing this since 1949 - I think the Palestinians by now know the Israelis didn’t do white supremacist settler-colonialism in order to be their friends.
It gave the Israelis the excuse to completely exterminate all the Palestinians in Gaza they’ve been waiting for.
Gaza openly calls for the extermination of Jews.
It is wrong to kill people but we have the death penalty for killers.
It is wrong to imprison people but we have prisons for criminals
Any thinking person can see from the start that Muslims are not willing to live on peace with Jews or anywhere whereas Israel has always been willing to live in peace
Israel’s “peace” is built upon land they violently seized from the Palestinians, from 1948 until today.
You should learn history .
You can look up the 1948 partition plan for starters, which Israel accepted and arabs went to war over. Israel ‘violently seized’ the land by defending themselves.
Under the British mandate, the Ottoman empire there were caps and restrictions on how many Jews could live in Palestine while there were none on Muslims. In every Muslim country there were discriminatory laws against Jews.
The Jewish was position was that there is some state to which Jews are free to immigrate, ie the Jews fleeing Europe. There have always been Jews in Palestine, Jews are the natives, but not a state for 2000 years.
In the Jewish state arabs live freely and it was always the position of Jews that arabs can live freely in Israel and that there can be a Palestinian state (in addition to Jordan which was a part of Palestine)
The Arab position- based on islam- is there can be no Jewish state at all. They are fascist, they think the whole world should be Islamic. They launch terror attacks all over the world against non muslims- in India, armenia, Europe, the USA, Africa…
You are just repeating slogans.
The Partition Plan, first, was in 1947, not 1948. Bad start. Here’s a Dec 1944 map of Jewish-owned land in Palestine:
Notice the extreme difference between this and the proposed partition:
The entire difference is land that was forcibly dispossessed from the Arab population that lived there:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba
The British immediately declined to implement the plan, and then withdrew from the region as civil war erupted.
And here are the modern lines - notice how Israel has dramatically expanded even since then, especially in the West Bank and Golan Heights:
https://me-confidential.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/palestine-e1453479943364-1024x701.jpg
https://www.npr.org/assets/graphics/2019/03/map-israel-golan-300.png
As of 1890, Jews represented 8.1% of the Palestinian population, and 1% as of 1690:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)
Inside the inner state. Outside, in the occupied/blockaded territories, they do not.
“The Arab position”? Extremely racist generalization. This is absolutely no different than saying “the black position” or “the Asian position”.
You are just repeating slogans. Ones I’ve heard over and over before. Get a better grip of the facts.
The partition was voted on in 1948.
No pals were displaced before the war. The area in the south of israel- the negev- is a desert where very few people lived and no one lived at the time.
There have always been Jews in Palestine, your assumption is that vacant, uninhabited, never developed land is somehow reserved for arabs when Jews are the native people of the land.
The Jewish position is that there be some land for Jews in israel- the land to which they are native- and the Muslim position is that there be none, not 1 inch, that it is all a Muslim state like all the other Muslim states which have had discriminatory laws against Jews for centuries.
All the further partitions are in the context of Arab wars against Israel, until 1967 Jordan controlled the west bank, Egypt Gaza, yet they did not make a Palestinian state… They launched wars against Israel in 1956, 67, 73…
Yes inside israel arabs live freely and don’t want to leave are be a part of Palestine, pals have been offered states on the WB etc… Numerous times and have always rejected.
Just a fresh new load of bullshit claims. I’m not doing this all night. Partition plan vote was November 29, 1947.
That’s the Israeli way, choosing a hard stance that makes things worse long term. That helped provoke the Hamas attack in the first place.
Oh poor Palestinians had no choice but to kidnap, rape and murder over a thousand people. Israel provoked them by bombing them, afterwards. Provocation in hindsight or something.
Run an apartheid regime and be surprised the second class citizens react violently.
Right, there was never any aggression from Israel onto the Palestinian population prior to Oct 7th 2023.
Oh, poor Israelis, all they were doing was conducting a genocide of an entire people for 75 years, all this death is totally unwarranted!
I refuse to feel sorry for any Israeli killed by anyone, so long as they’re hellbent on wiping Arabs off the planet. Those babies that were killed were just future IDF soldiers, waiting for their chance to put a boot on a Palestinian neck and a bullet in their brain.
There’s a good chance Israel killed their own babies too.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
I hope you see the irony of your comment. You do see it, right? I’m not gonna say you’re wrong, because you’re not. But you know what? Hurting your oppressors feels so good. And it’s better to die on your feet with a gun in your bloody hands, then laying on the ground with a boot on your neck.
I was going for a simple reply, that neither atrocity makes the other right, something which cuts both ways since historic times in this matter - but that statemrnt of yours, that’s off the deep end.
Frankly, the very notion of someone who “feels so good” killing babies, it disgusts me.
Israel is really in the drivers seat of this conflict though. You can imagine a reality where they had opened borders with Gaza and given them voices in the government. Where they’re all these foreign funds for to build schools and libraries and pumping in tvs and video games and internet and helping keep the streets safe, and where it’s much harder for a kid to say “I’m going to join a millitant groups” and where, even if Palestine is fighting it, we’re moving towards peace. There’s still violence from time to time, but it’s declining.
You cant imagine the same story with Palestine. They have no power in the current relationship to give anything to Israel afaik. They can’t build schools there even if they wanted to. So (to some extent, and acknowledging that it’s horrible horrible horrible for the people involved) the lashing out isn’t surprising there. It’s not good, but also not surprising. The two atrocities are very very different (imo).
I admire your optimism, I really do. When imagining a reality where Israel opens its borders to Gaza, what I see is Israel descended into a warzone - hundreds of thousands of dead Israelis, slaughtered in schools, homes, streets and hospitals in the name of muslim holy war, jewish genocide and the mantra of Palestine “from the river to the sea”.
It’s an entirely different situation in the West Bank, which some might consider odd, given that Gaza has essentially been a sovereign state, whilst the W.B has been under tight Israeli control. The W.B Palestinians have amongst the highest living standards in the entire Middle East, with schools, universities, internet and TVs. Indeed, it is quite possible that the situation in Gaza would’ve been far better had Israel not withdrawn in '05, but it is hard to make predictions about alternate timelines.
I think it has been very clear what Israel wants from peace, in fact they’ve already made it once, with Egypt. In exchange for recognition, the promise of peace and a few other concessions, they ceded an area of land larger than modern-day Israel.
That is the key point that palestinian leadership has never been willing to offer in negotiation - recognition of Israel (as rightful owner of its territories) and the promise of peace (officially renouncing any claims over those same territories).
Yeah but pals have been offered peace and a state from the beginning. They are at war because they have declared war against the existence of Jews. They deserve to die at this point
So you don’t think there should be any Jewish state when they’re are dozens of Muslim states and are against Israelis defending themselves. You are a fascist
Don’t you dare blame the Jews for the actions of the Israeli government, you sick antisemitic fuck. Take that nazi propaganda out of here. The only good nazi is a dead nazi, and you and everyone who thinks like you should be lined up against a wall and shot.
Israelis are the worst at genocide then, given how much Palestinian population is growing.
All the people that never had a word to say in defense of Palestinians in the decades prior, who as of Oct 7 are experts on the region and know exactly how Hamas appeared out of the clear blue sky that very morning, while Israel was sending shipments of marshmallow dreams and unicorns to Palestine for the decades prior.
You sound like you’re 12 and have no knowledge of the history of the conflict, just yelling slogans with the mob
Then read my full comment history, I understand it far better than you. And don’t reply, because I’ve read enough of your comments already.
Yeah right,.
Simple question, do you think Jewish people should be free to live in the land to which they are native?
Simple question. Do you think Palestinian people should be free to live in the land they were violently expelled from in 1948?
They were expelled because they started a war, Israel accepted the partition whereas pals did not. Israel was explicit they did not want to displace anyone. Many arabs live in Israel to this day. If there was no war there would have been no expulsion.
Pals have been offered states numerous times and even offered right of return for some refugees with compensation to the rest.
And even though you did not answer my question I will answer yours- no I do not think the arabs who were forced out in a war and who have been fighting a war since then should be allowed back en masse when they openly say they wish to destroy Israel. And if you want to re visit past injustices to say there are some arabs who should return, have land given back, then you also need to consider the Jews which were kicked out of the west bank like from Hebron and the Jews which were kicked out of Arab countries and of course the Jews which were kicked out of Europe. If you launch a war, lose , you can’t ask for a do ever where you get everything back and keep everything you took, it is ridiculous. At the outset the Jews were willing to accept a tiny state, that they were fleeing from the Holocaust, that Jews were living in refugee camps until 1948 when Israel was established. That Jews are the natives of the land, were making it prosperous, are integral to the history, and the arabs sided with the Nazis in WW2. They are truly disgusting, is it really so horrible to live around Jews , in their native land. You think the fact the pals had to move 50 miles down the road is some horrible injustice ?
From the start of the conflict and throughout the modern era Israel has always been willing to live in peace with the pals despite their belligerence making numerous offers. Jews never asked for welfare like the Muslim immigrants coming to Europe, they developed the land and caused many arabs to come. It is the pals who have belligerent, following fundamentalist islam saying there can be no Jewish state, everywhere has to be a Muslim state.
Removed by mod
I no longer have the cognitive dissonance to condemn any Palestinian for resisting Israel.
If you fight against Israel, you’re called Hamas - No matter who you are or what your opinions are. I simply will not condemn Hamas knowing that most of the “Hamas” being targeted at actually children armed with nothing more than stones and grief. I won’t condemn people driven to violence and aggression by a regime that is a million times more violent and aggressive.
Hamas was a tool of Israel and the people who spend endless days arguing over Hamas are the victims of this tool - The only way to defeat the ghost of Hamas is to support them. Only then does the Israeli propaganda fall apart, and thus the necessity of Israel to maintain Hamas as a scapegoat for terror.
There grief is that Israel exists. They are Islamic fascist who believe every country should be Muslim. They’d kill you if given the opportunity
It’s almost as if they want this conflict to exist perpetually…
Starve a population to death, population lashes out, take more of their land, rinse and repeat. People fall for it, so it works.
Removed by mod
This guy needs an account ban tbph
if the palestinian state ceases to exist, then they’re just back to being normal terrorists like hamas… presumably they’ll have to integrate into Egyptian society, etc