What group of young people has more power and opportunities than young men in the west?
Its pretty sad to hear someone outright bully someone. Its not fair to judge the people desperate for compassion. Some of these guys have grown up without a father figure or they are at the edge of suicide and you tell them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
Why dig through the massive pile of shit when you could just go read the people he scavenged it from?
I am not arguing that you cant find it somewhere else. I am arguing that he exists with this purpose and that he is an easy resource that provides a guiding substance young men desire. I dont even listen to him, i am asking why do young men flock to him if he is not what they want? Is it because they dont know about Heidegger of Marie Kondo or is it that they arent as widely known/popular? (Tbh this is the first time in my life ive heard those names.)
Stop assuming these young men have a burning desire to sift through hundreds if not thousands of options. These guys that seek out guidance are the types that are generally desperate. JBP might not be the best person but hes a figurehead for this space currently.
Its pretty sad to hear someone outright bully someone.
Lol, me disproving your unsupported claim that young men need empowerment is totally bullying…
Its not fair to judge the people desperate for compassion.
Huh, have you told Jordan Peterson that? If those people are utilizing their “empowerment” to displace the power of other actual disenfranchised groups… I’m totally fine with judging them.
On a side bar, being desperate for compassion has nothing to do with empowering young men. To seek empowerment is to seek power over people, you don’t connect to people by gathering power.
Some of these guys have grown up without a father figure or they are at the edge of suicide
And what does that have to do with empowering young men? They aren’t sad because they aren’t masculine enough, or disciplined enough. They have emotional baggage and should be seeking guidance from an actual therapist, not through some parasocial relationship with some bigot.
I am arguing that he exists with this purpose and that he is an easy resource that provides a guiding substance young men desire.
I don’t think you can speak for him or other young men… Nor can you really claim that he’s benefitted anyone with his ideology. I’m sure lots of people thought Jim Jones was helping them at the time. I’ve known people who got into JP and they thought he was helping him “make gains”, he wasn’t, he was just loosing friends.
why do young men flock to him if he is not what they want?
Because it easier to blame scapegoats like wokeism and feminist than it is to blame something more enigmatic like our current economic system.
The vast majority of JPs fans are young white men from the western hemisphere. People who 50 years ago would have been almost guaranteed the sweet middle class life if they could just learn a trade or go to college.
Well that’s not the case anymore for anyone. After the destruction of unions, the ever increasing profits reserves for shareholders, and the popularization of aggressive labour cutting management, were all in the same boat. If history has taught us anything is that to the privileged class, equality feels an awful lot like oppression.
These young men need a reason why they aren’t as successful as their grandfather’s, but they’re not ready to give up seeing the world in rose tinted glasses. They don’t want change, they want to revert back to the time where young white dudes got to catch the free ride.
I dont even listen to him
Then why would you state “I’ve never heard him state that”? Wouldn’t that have been redundant if you haven’t actually listened to him?
You don’t have be dishonest, you are entitled to have an opinion. However if you are engaging me with that opinion than I am entitled to explain why I think it’s wrong.
Is it because they dont know about Heidegger of Marie Kondo or is it that they arent as widely known/popular? (Tbh this is the first time in my life ive heard those names.)
Quite possible, our education system is a hot pile of trash. Heidegger is one of the fathers of embodied cognition, A philosophical and psychological theory that puts forth the idea that cognition is a dynamic development between an organism and it’s environment.
Basically, physical engagement with your environment is the most important aspect of cognition. This is why JP has you clean your room, it gets you to physically engage with your environment in a way that is manageable and achievable for everyone. Teaching people that physical engagement(embodiment) is the first step towards metaphysical problem solving.
The reason that this is dangerous is because it requires young men to embody(practice) the teachings enable to understand them. Which can be devastating if the teachings are being given by a insane person.
Marie Kando is kinda the nice version of JP. She utilizes embodied psych as well, but she’s responsible enough to limit what she teaches to practical things around the house hold. She is way way more popular than JP and is one of the best selling authors in recent history.
Stop assuming these young men have a burning desire to sift through hundreds if not thousands of options.
If these young men were actually in need, they would find actual help. The simple fact is that their needs are no greater than anyone else in the same age bracket. They’re just being told that they need help, because someone wants to sell them “help”.
but hes a figurehead for this space currently
Yes, because he’s one of the people who created the space in the first place. Jordan Peterson is just Andrew Tate for the pseudo intellectual, I could literally use your same exact arguments to support his popularity among young men. Do you hold the same respect for a literal human trafficker?
Its pretty sad to hear someone outright bully someone. Its not fair to judge the people desperate for compassion. Some of these guys have grown up without a father figure or they are at the edge of suicide and you tell them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
I am not arguing that you cant find it somewhere else. I am arguing that he exists with this purpose and that he is an easy resource that provides a guiding substance young men desire. I dont even listen to him, i am asking why do young men flock to him if he is not what they want? Is it because they dont know about Heidegger of Marie Kondo or is it that they arent as widely known/popular? (Tbh this is the first time in my life ive heard those names.)
Stop assuming these young men have a burning desire to sift through hundreds if not thousands of options. These guys that seek out guidance are the types that are generally desperate. JBP might not be the best person but hes a figurehead for this space currently.
Lol, me disproving your unsupported claim that young men need empowerment is totally bullying…
Huh, have you told Jordan Peterson that? If those people are utilizing their “empowerment” to displace the power of other actual disenfranchised groups… I’m totally fine with judging them.
On a side bar, being desperate for compassion has nothing to do with empowering young men. To seek empowerment is to seek power over people, you don’t connect to people by gathering power.
And what does that have to do with empowering young men? They aren’t sad because they aren’t masculine enough, or disciplined enough. They have emotional baggage and should be seeking guidance from an actual therapist, not through some parasocial relationship with some bigot.
I don’t think you can speak for him or other young men… Nor can you really claim that he’s benefitted anyone with his ideology. I’m sure lots of people thought Jim Jones was helping them at the time. I’ve known people who got into JP and they thought he was helping him “make gains”, he wasn’t, he was just loosing friends.
Because it easier to blame scapegoats like wokeism and feminist than it is to blame something more enigmatic like our current economic system.
The vast majority of JPs fans are young white men from the western hemisphere. People who 50 years ago would have been almost guaranteed the sweet middle class life if they could just learn a trade or go to college.
Well that’s not the case anymore for anyone. After the destruction of unions, the ever increasing profits reserves for shareholders, and the popularization of aggressive labour cutting management, were all in the same boat. If history has taught us anything is that to the privileged class, equality feels an awful lot like oppression.
These young men need a reason why they aren’t as successful as their grandfather’s, but they’re not ready to give up seeing the world in rose tinted glasses. They don’t want change, they want to revert back to the time where young white dudes got to catch the free ride.
Then why would you state “I’ve never heard him state that”? Wouldn’t that have been redundant if you haven’t actually listened to him?
You don’t have be dishonest, you are entitled to have an opinion. However if you are engaging me with that opinion than I am entitled to explain why I think it’s wrong.
Quite possible, our education system is a hot pile of trash. Heidegger is one of the fathers of embodied cognition, A philosophical and psychological theory that puts forth the idea that cognition is a dynamic development between an organism and it’s environment.
Basically, physical engagement with your environment is the most important aspect of cognition. This is why JP has you clean your room, it gets you to physically engage with your environment in a way that is manageable and achievable for everyone. Teaching people that physical engagement(embodiment) is the first step towards metaphysical problem solving.
The reason that this is dangerous is because it requires young men to embody(practice) the teachings enable to understand them. Which can be devastating if the teachings are being given by a insane person.
Marie Kando is kinda the nice version of JP. She utilizes embodied psych as well, but she’s responsible enough to limit what she teaches to practical things around the house hold. She is way way more popular than JP and is one of the best selling authors in recent history.
If these young men were actually in need, they would find actual help. The simple fact is that their needs are no greater than anyone else in the same age bracket. They’re just being told that they need help, because someone wants to sell them “help”.
Yes, because he’s one of the people who created the space in the first place. Jordan Peterson is just Andrew Tate for the pseudo intellectual, I could literally use your same exact arguments to support his popularity among young men. Do you hold the same respect for a literal human trafficker?