Thats really the fundamental problem with free speech. Letting anyone say whatever their opinion means that “Everyone” includes morons and racists (who are obviously also morons)
Not letting them have a platform means censorship. Letting them have a platform means hate speech. Tough nut to crack.
Why is it censorship? They can still talk anywhere that accepts them, including public property; that they can’t do it in my backyard isn’t censoring them.
Interesting point. But are you willing to put your theory into practice?
If you truly believe this, you must now end all your messages with:
“veraticus@lib.lgbt said that free-speech maximalism is for fools but I disagreed because I am a fool.”
If you don’t do this you are suppressing my speech and censoring me. And please don’t object on the grounds that the content is, perhaps, objectionable to some; remember, objectionable content is especially worthy of free speech protections.
Stop censoring me. I know you might find the content objectionable, but my freedom of speech demands you include that phrase in all your posts from this moment on. You aren’t going to suppress speech you don’t like or agree with, are you?
Censorship doesn’t mean refusing to repeat other people’s speech. It means preventing others from speaking. Not sure what part of this you’re not getting. It is not a difficult concept.
It’s not a public forum, it’s a privately owned social media website/app…
The owners can kick anyone out they want.
Musk knew that, but apparently didn’t know why the old owners kicked them out, it’s because the vast majority of advertisers and users don’t want them their.
It’s not. Platforming speech is endorsing speech. I mean, there’s nuance to how it should be handled if someone says something you can’t endorse, but that sentence is rule 1 of owning social media platforms.
It’s no more public than a shopping mall. The mall and Twitter are owned by a corporation or private entity so they can kick you out for any reason. They own the space, not the government. A public space is somewhere typically owned by the government like the library, town hall, roadway, or park. A common misconception is that anywhere people can freely enter is a public space, that’s not really how it works. If you think I’m wrong, go wave a Nazi flag and cause a disturbance at a mall and see how fast they kick you out.
Everyone can say what they want, but contrary to what the MAGA idiots think, they have no right to free speech on someone else’s platform. They are free to make their own platforms and we can see from the great success of Truth Social and Parler how that works out.
What “free speech absolutist” Musk is trying to do is limit the speech of the ADL outside his platform, and to prevent them from shining a spotlight on him and the Nazi cockroaches he’s invited back to Twitter. He’s not going to convince advertisers that having their company’s name appear next to Nazi content is a good thing, and IMO his attempted bullying of the ADL is going to end up driving advertisers away instead of bringing them back. Good.
Remember, he grew up a rich white boy in full apartheid South Africa, and never matured beyond that. He has no ability for self-reflection or introspection. Which means he’s never wrong, so someone else must be to blame. So far, that’s included religious, racial, and sexual minorities. He’s only going to grow more deranged as time goes on.
True. Lots of people are jumping on the new “Elon is a nazi” bandwagon though.
What a world we live in where disagreeing with what an organization led or founded by someone jewish allegedly did or didn’t do gets you labeled as an anti-semite. I fail to see how anything here has anything to do with anyone being jewish.
I still would like so badly to find out Elon is an anti-semite. It would be the icing on the cake for all the other batshit stiff he’s done. Does anyone know of evidence of this?
In December 2022, Twitter reinstated the account of notorious neo-Nazi Andrew Anglin (and then suspended him again this month), who has a warrant out for his arrest for ignoring a $14 million judgment against him for directing an antisemitic harassment campaign against a target.
Twitter also reinstated the accounts of people who have incited violence or frequently posted hateful content:
The Nation of Islam
White nationalist Patrick Casey
Misogynist Andrew Tate
Antisemitic tweets directed at Jewish investor and philanthropist George Soros warranted its own category. He was mentioned more than any other person in our data, over 19,000 times, with tweets claiming he was a member of a hidden globalist, Jewish or “Nazi” world order.
in May, Musk likened billionaire George Soros — a perennial boogeyman for the antisemitic right — to a supervillain, claiming that he “hates humanity.”
Antisemitism on Twitter has more than doubled since Elon Musk took over the platform
While jury selection in the trial of the Pittsburgh Tree of Life synagogue shooter continued on Wednesday, Musk used his platform to boost virulent antisemitic conspiracy theories—including some that the Pittsburgh suspect himself spread
Musk also responded to tweets spreading other Soros conspiracy theories, including false claims that Soros, a Holocaust survivor, helped roundup Jews for the Nazis, and claims that Soros is somehow linked to the Rothschilds, an entirely separate antisemitic conspiracy theory about Jewish bankers which the Soros’ conspiracies have largely replaced.
just days after Musk announced he was buying Twitter for $44 billion, he tweeted about the antisemitic conspiracy that Jews control the U.S. media, including a reference to Soros.
I don’t want to make it sound like any racists/homophobes/anti-semites or any hateful people of any sort have any sort of place in modern society or deserve any respect but I think the argument is that even hateful speech is still free speech, and the argument is that the ADL is trying to suppress speech. If other hate groups want to latch on to that its their perogative but I don’t necessarily see how that might make Elon anti-Semetic.
Just my two cents. Take it or leave it. Im going to stay out of this convo from here on out because Pro and Anti-elon as well as pro and anti racists are very vocal and opinionated and I know how these conversations usually end up.
Why does it matter that it’s free speech? Like congratulations that the government isn’t trying to literally arrest you for what you’re saying. That’s like the bare minimum.
We have no obligation to accept all kinds of speech at all times. X, as a private platform, can make whatever rules it likes for the speech it allows on X. And Elon is allowing anti-Semitic speech while suppressing pro-trans speech.
Like it’s pretty obvious what “free speech” means to him. And it isn’t actually free speech, it’s just prioritizing speech he likes. (Which, spoiler alert, is what all American free speech arguments boil down to.)
As was previously pointed out, he’s boosting a hashtag being used by antisemitics to promote banning the main organization that monitors antisemitic activity.
Elon isn’t anti-semitic because he’s a free speech absolutist, he’s anti-semitic because he has personally engaged in anti-semitic behaviour. I provided a dearth of examples and sources of that in my comment posted an hour before the one you replied to, and I note that you haven’t responded my comment at all. Have you considered the possibility that you may have some kind of bias in this situation which prevents you from seeing it clearly?
This is where we are with Elon Musk and X/Twitter. He’s a passive sympathizer because he allows the content. What makes matters worse is he’s trying to blame it on the ADL instead of taking responsibility for it.
So he lost advertisers not because of antisemitism, but because someone complained.
Makes perfect sense.
I’m sure the prospect of having your company’s name displayed alongside actual Nazi content has nothing to do with it.
No, no - he means he blames the ADL for making most people not like Nazis.
Thats really the fundamental problem with free speech. Letting anyone say whatever their opinion means that “Everyone” includes morons and racists (who are obviously also morons)
Not letting them have a platform means censorship. Letting them have a platform means hate speech. Tough nut to crack.
Why is it censorship? They can still talk anywhere that accepts them, including public property; that they can’t do it in my backyard isn’t censoring them.
The problem is you’re trying to redefine censorship to fit your narrative.
censor
verb
censored; censoring ˈsen(t)-sə-riŋ ˈsen(t)s-riŋ
transitive verb
: to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable
Suppressing speech, regardless of where or how, is censorship.
Interesting point. But are you willing to put your theory into practice?
If you truly believe this, you must now end all your messages with:
“veraticus@lib.lgbt said that free-speech maximalism is for fools but I disagreed because I am a fool.”
If you don’t do this you are suppressing my speech and censoring me. And please don’t object on the grounds that the content is, perhaps, objectionable to some; remember, objectionable content is especially worthy of free speech protections.
I have no idea how you got this from what I said but no, that’s not how any of this works.
Stop censoring me. I know you might find the content objectionable, but my freedom of speech demands you include that phrase in all your posts from this moment on. You aren’t going to suppress speech you don’t like or agree with, are you?
Censorship doesn’t mean refusing to repeat other people’s speech. It means preventing others from speaking. Not sure what part of this you’re not getting. It is not a difficult concept.
I think because X/Twitter is a public forum, not your backyard?
It’s not a public forum, it’s a privately owned social media website/app…
The owners can kick anyone out they want.
Musk knew that, but apparently didn’t know why the old owners kicked them out, it’s because the vast majority of advertisers and users don’t want them their.
Not saying he shouldn’t but it is a slippery slope.
It’s not. Platforming speech is endorsing speech. I mean, there’s nuance to how it should be handled if someone says something you can’t endorse, but that sentence is rule 1 of owning social media platforms.
I agree.
If you keep letting them have a platform next thing they’ll be building showers in their camps again.
It’s no more public than a shopping mall. The mall and Twitter are owned by a corporation or private entity so they can kick you out for any reason. They own the space, not the government. A public space is somewhere typically owned by the government like the library, town hall, roadway, or park. A common misconception is that anywhere people can freely enter is a public space, that’s not really how it works. If you think I’m wrong, go wave a Nazi flag and cause a disturbance at a mall and see how fast they kick you out.
In what sense is it public? It’s owned by X and no one else.
People want to think it’s a public forum because a lot of people use it. But that doesn’t actually make it public.
Everyone can say what they want, but contrary to what the MAGA idiots think, they have no right to free speech on someone else’s platform. They are free to make their own platforms and we can see from the great success of Truth Social and Parler how that works out.
What “free speech absolutist” Musk is trying to do is limit the speech of the ADL outside his platform, and to prevent them from shining a spotlight on him and the Nazi cockroaches he’s invited back to Twitter. He’s not going to convince advertisers that having their company’s name appear next to Nazi content is a good thing, and IMO his attempted bullying of the ADL is going to end up driving advertisers away instead of bringing them back. Good.
Not actually that tough.
Relevant, and succinct.
The problem is that people don’t realize there are different types of free speech.
1 is the constitutionally guaranteed right to free speech by law.
2 is the concept of free speech.
Most people automatically assume you’re referring 1 when more often than not, unless someone is being prosecuted, they are referring to 2.
#2 doesn’t exist, because #2 is forcing others to host your speech and listen to your speech, and that’s just not how things work.
You are free to say what you want, but everyone else is just as free to tell you to shut up and go away.
Uhhhh no? A concept doesn’t force people to do anything. Not sure what you’re on about.
No one said they’re not.
Nazis and dumb people vs. No Nazis and dumb people.
Hmmm.
Remember, he grew up a rich white boy in full apartheid South Africa, and never matured beyond that. He has no ability for self-reflection or introspection. Which means he’s never wrong, so someone else must be to blame. So far, that’s included religious, racial, and sexual minorities. He’s only going to grow more deranged as time goes on.
Rich white boy whose parents wealth directly came from apartheid oppression*
What did his parents do? Because wow that explains a lot.
Emerald mine.
Weren’t they also weapons smugglers? He talked about him and his dad flying with a plane load of contraband including AK-47s.
How else do you arm your private security to keep your slaves in line.
And grandparents? Usually you can trace the wealth back through multiple generations
True. Lots of people are jumping on the new “Elon is a nazi” bandwagon though.
What a world we live in where disagreeing with what an organization led or founded by someone jewish allegedly did or didn’t do gets you labeled as an anti-semite. I fail to see how anything here has anything to do with anyone being jewish.
I still would like so badly to find out Elon is an anti-semite. It would be the icing on the cake for all the other batshit stiff he’s done. Does anyone know of evidence of this?
In December 2022, Twitter reinstated the account of notorious neo-Nazi Andrew Anglin (and then suspended him again this month), who has a warrant out for his arrest for ignoring a $14 million judgment against him for directing an antisemitic harassment campaign against a target.
Twitter also reinstated the accounts of people who have incited violence or frequently posted hateful content:
The Nation of Islam White nationalist Patrick Casey Misogynist Andrew Tate
Antisemitic tweets directed at Jewish investor and philanthropist George Soros warranted its own category. He was mentioned more than any other person in our data, over 19,000 times, with tweets claiming he was a member of a hidden globalist, Jewish or “Nazi” world order.
in May, Musk likened billionaire George Soros — a perennial boogeyman for the antisemitic right — to a supervillain, claiming that he “hates humanity.”
Antisemitism on Twitter has more than doubled since Elon Musk took over the platform
While jury selection in the trial of the Pittsburgh Tree of Life synagogue shooter continued on Wednesday, Musk used his platform to boost virulent antisemitic conspiracy theories—including some that the Pittsburgh suspect himself spread
Musk also responded to tweets spreading other Soros conspiracy theories, including false claims that Soros, a Holocaust survivor, helped roundup Jews for the Nazis, and claims that Soros is somehow linked to the Rothschilds, an entirely separate antisemitic conspiracy theory about Jewish bankers which the Soros’ conspiracies have largely replaced.
just days after Musk announced he was buying Twitter for $44 billion, he tweeted about the antisemitic conspiracy that Jews control the U.S. media, including a reference to Soros.
https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/evaluating-twitters-policies-six-months-after-elon-musks-purchase
https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/twitter-not-enforcing-its-policies-antisemitic-content
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/elon-musk-boosts-antisemitic-propaganda-twitter-anti-defamation-league-1234817008/
https://theconversation.com/antisemitism-on-twitter-has-more-than-doubled-since-elon-musk-took-over-the-platform-new-research-201830
https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3m443/elon-musk-george-soros-antisemitic-tweets
Literally the hashtag campaign that Elon is signal boosting (#BanTheADL) is boosted by antisemitic people who make no secret of their antisemitism. Here’s more information: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/elon-musk-boosts-antisemitic-propaganda-twitter-anti-defamation-league-1234817008/
I don’t want to make it sound like any racists/homophobes/anti-semites or any hateful people of any sort have any sort of place in modern society or deserve any respect but I think the argument is that even hateful speech is still free speech, and the argument is that the ADL is trying to suppress speech. If other hate groups want to latch on to that its their perogative but I don’t necessarily see how that might make Elon anti-Semetic.
Just my two cents. Take it or leave it. Im going to stay out of this convo from here on out because Pro and Anti-elon as well as pro and anti racists are very vocal and opinionated and I know how these conversations usually end up.
Why does it matter that it’s free speech? Like congratulations that the government isn’t trying to literally arrest you for what you’re saying. That’s like the bare minimum.
We have no obligation to accept all kinds of speech at all times. X, as a private platform, can make whatever rules it likes for the speech it allows on X. And Elon is allowing anti-Semitic speech while suppressing pro-trans speech.
Like it’s pretty obvious what “free speech” means to him. And it isn’t actually free speech, it’s just prioritizing speech he likes. (Which, spoiler alert, is what all American free speech arguments boil down to.)
As was previously pointed out, he’s boosting a hashtag being used by antisemitics to promote banning the main organization that monitors antisemitic activity.
What about that isn’t clear for you?
Elon isn’t anti-semitic because he’s a free speech absolutist, he’s anti-semitic because he has personally engaged in anti-semitic behaviour. I provided a dearth of examples and sources of that in my comment posted an hour before the one you replied to, and I note that you haven’t responded my comment at all. Have you considered the possibility that you may have some kind of bias in this situation which prevents you from seeing it clearly?
^ Nazi Cunt
Mitläufer
This is where we are with Elon Musk and X/Twitter. He’s a passive sympathizer because he allows the content. What makes matters worse is he’s trying to blame it on the ADL instead of taking responsibility for it.
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