There’s something we humans seem to not understand: not everything has to be a gain. There are things that need to change, whether we like it or not. I eat meat, I could never be a vegetarian. Yet if the government did something about the meat industry and meat gets really expensive I would complain for a bit and then keep on living, eating other things.
Every change people act like it’s the end of the world. And corporations know that, and push against change and regulations. What we need is strong politics but that’s a utopia nowadays
It is obvious that I disagree, not only because you yourself disagree with you:
I could never be a vegetarian … then keep on living, eating other things.
Where I presume other things would simply be plants. So you could but a strong government has to force you.
The last government in the Netherlands wanted to force the animal industry to reduce the nitrate strain on the earth and groundwater. A new conservative “farmers” party was formed which was elected then. They have a massive industrial animal complex which powered this party that ran on fear and bullshit.
There are things that need change, but the most important part is to change what we have power over, our self. Every government in the world has to face the problem of animal industry, just like coal and fossile fuels. China already has plant based protein in their latest five-year agricultural plan, but they don’t have to fear the voters as much. So if you live in a democracy and you value it you have to live the change you want to see. It takes money from the industry, it supports alternatives and it shows the government that they will not be replaced by industry powered fearmongers if they propose changing the system.
Eating meat and dairy supports the industry
A plant based diet is the passive way of not supporting it
Fighting against the industry is the active way
You position is not neutral, at the moment you support what is “uncovered” in the article, you might consider changing that 💚
I don’t believe change comes from just freedom. Sometimes it does, but we are like kids. If we don’t have limits we do what we want. Nobody wants to change their habits. My point was that I can adapt. I can eat much less meat, discover new recipes and so on. But I’m comfortable now and I don’t want to change. The same goes for the majority of people, and we will never solve climate change if we are not forced to change habits. We, individually, will never have the same impact as governments passing regulations. We disagree, and that’s exactly why we can’t change by doing things alone
So your are working more in the direction of authoritarian governance? Authoritarian left I guess because the right still even hold strong on fossile fuels.
What do you propose to do with those how don’t comply with your rule of force, gulag?
Can you think of any change in history where that worked out? Most rights we have fought for in history: voting rights, women voting, abolishing of slavery, human rights, all that came from the people and there have been wars for it. Animal rights and the rights of future generations are tied into each other. We can’t have one without the other
We should not need governance or bibles to take responsibility for our own actions.
Animal agriculture will raise the temperature even if we had stopped 2 years ago with all fossile fuel by 2°C. Since we still burn fossile fuel the temperature will raise above +4°C, a point where all animal agriculture will fail because the animals will die from heatstroke and starve from global crop failure.
And your position is “if you force me I will comply daddy president beloved leader” instead of joining the millions who have gone already vegan? Are you really like a kid?
Jezz you went completely to the extreme without addressing any of my points. I’m not saying we should have an authoritarian government. Just one with regulations. Are you an anarchist? Because you sound like one. All the big things are done organized, be it in a government or an association. Do you think women’s rights were done by a group of people? Governments passed laws. So you need laws to help society. Whether you like it or not
Absolutely, stuff happens, no protests, no civil war, people just don’t care and then it happens. How could I not have seen that.
Do you have no respect towards those who fought for your rights? All the marches and protests that brought us to where we are now? It would be great if you join a association or organization, you don’t have to do it alone!
Yes, I am leaning towards veganarchism, I would prefer not to have a government having to force people what they eat. Maybe its a kink of yours, don’t know. I am 40, I am vegan for 5 years. I don’t think I would have excused my earlier actions with a too weak government. That’s real sad is all I am saying
It’s kind of funny that you attack me for just stating my opinion and then get mad for something I didn’t say. You are too extreme. Next time think about the laws that allow you to live peacefully in your country. If you think you will have any impact without government action then good luck!
I have impact, on other and on the government, I don’t support what I am against and I work actively against it. I don’t lay back and wish for others to act without doing something myself. I don’t wait for others. I understand that from your position, where a strong government should fix you, that sounds extrem.
There’s something we humans seem to not understand: not everything has to be a gain. There are things that need to change, whether we like it or not. I eat meat, I could never be a vegetarian. Yet if the government did something about the meat industry and meat gets really expensive I would complain for a bit and then keep on living, eating other things.
Every change people act like it’s the end of the world. And corporations know that, and push against change and regulations. What we need is strong politics but that’s a utopia nowadays
It is obvious that I disagree, not only because you yourself disagree with you:
Where I presume other things would simply be plants. So you could but a strong government has to force you.
The last government in the Netherlands wanted to force the animal industry to reduce the nitrate strain on the earth and groundwater. A new conservative “farmers” party was formed which was elected then. They have a massive industrial animal complex which powered this party that ran on fear and bullshit.
There are things that need change, but the most important part is to change what we have power over, our self. Every government in the world has to face the problem of animal industry, just like coal and fossile fuels. China already has plant based protein in their latest five-year agricultural plan, but they don’t have to fear the voters as much. So if you live in a democracy and you value it you have to live the change you want to see. It takes money from the industry, it supports alternatives and it shows the government that they will not be replaced by industry powered fearmongers if they propose changing the system.
You position is not neutral, at the moment you support what is “uncovered” in the article, you might consider changing that 💚
I don’t believe change comes from just freedom. Sometimes it does, but we are like kids. If we don’t have limits we do what we want. Nobody wants to change their habits. My point was that I can adapt. I can eat much less meat, discover new recipes and so on. But I’m comfortable now and I don’t want to change. The same goes for the majority of people, and we will never solve climate change if we are not forced to change habits. We, individually, will never have the same impact as governments passing regulations. We disagree, and that’s exactly why we can’t change by doing things alone
So your are working more in the direction of authoritarian governance? Authoritarian left I guess because the right still even hold strong on fossile fuels.
What do you propose to do with those how don’t comply with your rule of force, gulag?
Can you think of any change in history where that worked out? Most rights we have fought for in history: voting rights, women voting, abolishing of slavery, human rights, all that came from the people and there have been wars for it. Animal rights and the rights of future generations are tied into each other. We can’t have one without the other We should not need governance or bibles to take responsibility for our own actions.
Animal agriculture will raise the temperature even if we had stopped 2 years ago with all fossile fuel by 2°C. Since we still burn fossile fuel the temperature will raise above +4°C, a point where all animal agriculture will fail because the animals will die from heatstroke and starve from global crop failure.
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aba7357
And your position is “if you force me I will comply
daddy presidentbeloved leader” instead of joining the millions who have gone already vegan? Are you really like a kid?Jezz you went completely to the extreme without addressing any of my points. I’m not saying we should have an authoritarian government. Just one with regulations. Are you an anarchist? Because you sound like one. All the big things are done organized, be it in a government or an association. Do you think women’s rights were done by a group of people? Governments passed laws. So you need laws to help society. Whether you like it or not
Absolutely, stuff happens, no protests, no civil war, people just don’t care and then it happens. How could I not have seen that.
Do you have no respect towards those who fought for your rights? All the marches and protests that brought us to where we are now? It would be great if you join a association or organization, you don’t have to do it alone!
Yes, I am leaning towards veganarchism, I would prefer not to have a government having to force people what they eat. Maybe its a kink of yours, don’t know. I am 40, I am vegan for 5 years. I don’t think I would have excused my earlier actions with a too weak government. That’s real sad is all I am saying
It’s kind of funny that you attack me for just stating my opinion and then get mad for something I didn’t say. You are too extreme. Next time think about the laws that allow you to live peacefully in your country. If you think you will have any impact without government action then good luck!
I have impact, on other and on the government, I don’t support what I am against and I work actively against it. I don’t lay back and wish for others to act without doing something myself. I don’t wait for others. I understand that from your position, where a strong government should fix you, that sounds extrem.