- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@sh.itjust.works
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@sh.itjust.works
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/1338851
Archived version: https://archive.ph/yDjTx
Archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20230811193345/https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-fire-all-regional-military-recruitment-chiefs-zelenskiy-2023-08-11/
Russia is more imperialist and more capitalist than the US.
Communism, like actual communism? Sounds great to me.
Russia? Is just as close to communism as the sun is to being cold.
Russia is not even close to being more imperialist than the US. I’d describe its actions in Ukraine as revanchist, not imperialist, and to be clear thats still bad. But United States does like 1000% the amount of neoimperalist garbage throughout the global south and thats well documented: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
And that article is just the overt stuff, not the just regular old economic plundering of the global south they get up to usually.
More capitalist? Eh, I guess that can be argued. Both countries are run by oligarchs though. The USA is just more polite about it.
We don’t disagree on this and I never stated otherwise. You have very clearly strawmanned me.
I put forth the idea that an oligarchy where the oligarchs are somewhat nerfed by infighting and changing of power between presidents is marginally better than an oligarchy with a dictator that cannot be removed.
American oligarchs are barely infighting. At the end of the day, the capitalist class has class solidarity, even if they quibble over abortion. There’s a communist term (you say you are fine with actual communism, so you shouldnt have a problem with it since its a term Marx invented) called “dictatorship of the bourgeoise”. Thats what Americans live under. The difference between that and a more overt autocracy is basically politeness about it. I won’t deny that the United States has better queer rights than Russia (for now… I’m not confident in how long that will continue to be the case, I am deathly afraid the United States is quickly sliding towards fascism) and I would rather live here than Russia as a bi man. On that we don’t disagree. We disagree on the geopolitical implications of the War in Ukraine. We do not disagree that Russia’s government is bad, or even that Putin did a bad thing by invading.
What’s your goal then anyway?
Any time in history a dictator starts invading, it’s never just one country. We literally just went through this with Hitler in WW2. Germany is just reuniting culturally similar people, and everyone looks the other way, until he isn’t.
This isn’t about just Ukraine. It’s not the first or the last. Russia would happily conquer US territory if there was no one to stop him.
So what’s your goal? Disband NATO, let the US fall?
Let China and Russia carve up the US between them?
Despite every valid criticism of the US, and they are endless, you admit it’s better to live as a citizen of the US than under a homophobic dictator.
My goal is creating the material conditions for revolution, and for that to happen the global south needs to come out from under the imperialist heel of the United States and its allies. It is a completely necessary step towards communism. That does not mean I think that Russia is communist like you said before. It just means that I think the US and allies are the current greatest evil in the world and I support things that weaken its power. That is pretty much the ML view of geopolitics at its root. If the US and Russia were both equally or near-equally bad imperialist powers doing equally bad things around the world, I would feel differently, but they aren’t.
And I don’t think there’s any evidence that Putin is an insane megalomaniac to that extent. With Hitler there was evidence, it was always part of his ideology. I definitely think its its wild to imply that he has ambitions conquering the US or anything like that. Thats just not based in reality. Based on the evidence I’ve seen, and the peace deals he has offered only to be vetoed by NATO, I dont even think he seeks to reconquer all of Ukraine. I think his invasion, as much as I disagree with it, was mostly motivated by Donbass and NATO encirclement.
See, this is where you are completely out of touch of reality.
There’s no evidence that Putin ISNT another wannabe Hitler. He’s a dictator that can’t be removed because he kills off all his political rivals. He’s a liar who will pretend his invasion force is just running training exercises. He’s threatened to use nukes, even though it’s basically just mutually assured destruction.
And sure, Putin now wants “peace” because this war is insanely costly for him, everyone expected Ukraine to fall within days. Putin was supposed to conquer Ukraine before NATO could act. So Putin has no choice but peace if he wants to keep the 1/5 he’s already conquered. Pleace, that is, until he starts running training exercises along the border again.
The real question of the day for y’all is, why is Russia conquering neighboring countries instead of making alliances? Why didn’t Russia and Ukraine start a Eastern European Treaty Organization? A treaty would have massively reinforced Russia against NATO without gutting it’s military. I don’t see any benefit for Russia turning it into a way except for Putin being an expansion thirsty megalomaniac.