• @hark@lemmy.world
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    -31 year ago

    Regarding negotiations, I’ve seen the position “Russia out of Ukraine, NATO out of existence” which I think would generally be fair, but I don’t think it’ll actually happen since there is an interest in prolonging the war.

    • @Gsus4@feddit.nl
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      1 year ago

      lol, NATO out of what? If you want NATO gone, you’re gonna have to replace it with something, since it is the closest thing to a European army and as much as I’d love for armies to be unnecessary, after what russia has done there is no way that NATO is going away, even if the US suddenly disappeared. The day the US has a stroke and leaves NATO, Germany, Japan and Korea will have nukes ready to deploy in a week. People underestimate the utility of the US sucking up all the responsibilities with defense that come with hegemony, but I suppose you don’t, since you understand geopolitical nuance.

      • BombOmOm
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        1 year ago

        Exactly. Russia proved the only thing that will stop them from invading their neighbors is force, and Hark believes other countries will willingly give up their own defense after this multi-year demonstration? The only thing keeping Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania from a Russian invasion is NATO. No way in hell are they giving that up.

        • @Gsus4@feddit.nl
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          1 year ago

          No, you need to imagine that Europe has as much of a right (a need, actually) to have an army coordination structure as russia does, what world do you live in? What are we going to have? 30 independent armies? That’s how we got the napoleonic wars, WW1, WW2. Turkey membership has kept Greece and Turkey from going to war. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

          I mean, how about russia disbands its own army? How about that, can’t you imagine a world like that?