“What Israeli forces are doing in besieged North Gaza cannot be allowed to continue,” the human rights official said.

Israel could kill everyone left in Northern Gaza if its assault on the enclave continues, a United Nations relief official warned on Saturday

“Hospitals have been hit, and health workers have been detained. Shelters have been emptied and burned down. First responders have been prevented from saving people from under the rubble. Families have been separated, and men and boys are being taken away by the truckload,”

Msuya estimated that Israel’s actions in the north had killed hundreds and displaced tens of thousands. According to Al Jazeera, an Israeli siege on the north that began earlier in October has killed around 640.

“The Biden-Harris administration must stop the flow of U.S. weapons to Israel which constitutes a necessary step to halting Israel’s ongoing war crimes,” IMEU wrote on social media Saturday. “It’s time for an arms embargo now.”

  • @CritFail@lemmy.worldEnglish
    82•2 months ago

    If Israel actually completes its mission and kills every man, woman, and child in Palestine, would that make the western powers any more inclined to call it genocide?

      • @Dasus@lemmy.worldEnglish
        12•2 months ago

        “We will have to think about scheduling a call to plan a meeting to start having talks about perhaps organising a committee which would make a recommendation as to how we should go about getting ready to write a sternly worded press release (in which we won’t criticise Israel too much).”

        The four stage strategy

    • @Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.worldEnglish
      17•2 months ago

      Probably not for a few decades at least. It’s only when today’s college aged people take power that it’ll get labeled as such. And even then, it’s not a guarantee.

    • @Nihilistra@lemmy.worldEnglish
      13•2 months ago

      Most probably suspect it’s genocide and know they, by not speaking out, at least support it passively. But it just doesn’t matter for their immediate or the near future, so nothing will happen. Thoughts and prayers…

      I see two main culprits that enable Israel to eradicate the Palestinian people and their livelihood in manner and speed we see now. The US and germany. Many other western political elites seem far more divided on the topic but probably fear the backlash of speaking out.

      70% of the weapons come from the US and they will never stop to supply their FOB. Democrats or republicans will veto everything and make it as hard as possible to even reach a clear global verdict on what happened and how to classify it.

      Most of the remaining 30% come from germany.

      Here the key argument is that Israel is worthy of unwavering support due to the historical fact of the holocaust and the inhumane acts inflicted on the Jewish population.

      Scholz said recently that the security of Israel is a National interest of germany. As a german I feel this too, although for me the state of Israel and the global jewish population we did unspeakable crimes to are not necessarily the same. There are lines that can be crossed that limit my willingness of support. It’s not unconditional and they crossed them. Israel crossed them, not the jews.

      I also feel past and present crimes the jewish people had to endure can be used to understand why Israel is acting the way it does but it can’t be a justification of their barbaric way of waging this war against Hamas.

      In short, nothing will change. Sorry for the long reply, this shit really grinds my gears.

      • @Doorbook@lemmy.worldEnglish
        4•2 months ago

        US, Germany, UK, Canada, Ireland, Italy, Spain, and many more you have to dig a bit to find the details sometimes

        Edit: Here info about Ireland:

        I found out the other day from an interview with Irish advocate but here some info about it:

        https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2024/05/28/sharp-increase-in-export-of-irish-goods-to-israel-that-could-be-used-for-military-purposes-report-shows/

        https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-41404601.html

        • @Nihilistra@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2•2 months ago

          It was not ours to decide after the war but its an interesting thought. I’d like to see the outcome of that alternative timeline.

          Many of the administrative positions were still filled with former Nazis. Most germans in denial of what happened. Also the winning powers seemed far more interested in the spoils of war compared to a just but self-limiting gesture of goodwill.

          Sketchy ground for such huge undertaking that would have made german willingness and acceptance paramount.

          Also the first thing that comes to my mind is that this decision would jave encaged the victims with the perpetrators. Tough deal to sell to the world.

          • @just_an_average_joe@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            3•2 months ago

            I think germany is still in denial, i think part of the reason why germany is so opposed to even acknowledge palestinian genocide is because, to acknowledge it, is to acknowledge that the “israel solution” was inadequate.

            On its core, the rise of hitler and persecution of jews were a result of racism. The economy fell and people started to blame the jews, it could just as easily have been another minority group.

            You can actually see a similar behaviour in modern day germany, The economy went downhill because of a series of bad decisions before covid (over reliance on russian oil, closing all nuclear plants etc.) And the german population started to align themselves with neo nazi (like AfD), as evident from the last election. Neo-nazism now blames immigrants for all the german troubles.

            Clearly whatever steps Germany (and the west in general) took, including the creation of israel, were not enough.

            Feel free to correct me if i am wrong about anything.

            • @boomzilla@programming.devEnglish
              1•2 months ago

              Yeah and now our industrial gas tanks are filled with non-russian gas, we got one of the most stable energy grids in Europe, we import 2% of our energy from other countries (0.5% from the nuclear power france) and export some of it on good days and energy prices & inflation rates are on a pre-2022 level. Thanks to the Green party.

              Then we got rich populists like Merz, Söder, Linnemann, Spahn or Schäffler who are in close ties with the fossil fuel industry (The Republic, BlackRock, Heritage Foundation, Atlas Network, Heartland Institute, Koch Brothers) whose only target during their electoral campaigns are the Greens, immigrants and people on welfare payments. Blaming the Greens for political decissions they supported themselves while they were in power for 16 years (nuclear power exit, end of combustion engines, heating without fossil fuels and fricking bottle caps). Instead of working together with the progressives against the neo nazis from AfD they proclaim they’re the solution against their uprising by fighting against the progressives. Weimar Republic reloaded.

              All while our political imbecile citizens are believing their talking points and the smear campaigns of “Welt” and “Bild” (funded by above listed networks) that the Greens will be our downfall. I would leave this stupid country if I had the money.

              https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1842811627994759358.html

              https://x.com/Tentoads4truth/status/1822625100979397011/photo/2

            • @AntidenialistEnglish
              1•2 months ago

              These asshole didnt give papers to holocaust survivors. They were apatrides until 1955.

            • Crass SpektakelEnglish
              -5•2 months ago

              Right-Wing Parties are only a concern in the low populated Eastern German parts. I assure you, in Bavaria we have not forgotten Munich 1972. When Israel took care of the heads behind it pretty much every German applauded.

              • @foenkyfjutschah@programming.devEnglish
                1•2 months ago

                na klar, wofür haben die Freien Wähler bei der letzten wahl nochmal so viele punkte dazugewonnnen? iirc waren das inkl. AfD am ende +10% für verkappte nazis. bleib mal locker im Hofbräuhaus.

          • مهما طال الليلEnglish
            0•2 months ago

            The real reason is that Zionists and Western powers wanted to use Israel to colonize and subjugate the region and also solve Europe’s “Jewish problem”, a new iteration of the Crusader states.

            “We should there form a portion of a rampart of Europe against Asia, an outpost of civilization as opposed to barbarism. We should as a neutral State remain in contact with all Europe, which would have to guarantee our existence.” – Theodor Herzl

            Quote source: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/quot-the-jewish-state-quot-theodor-herzl

            • @just_an_average_joe@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
              5•2 months ago

              The belford declaration was signed for 3 reasons:

              1. the christians at the time thought that by sending jews to the holy land will bring forth their messiah and the world will end.

              2. europe (including britain) had a lot of anti-semites, and the creation of israel meant that there would be less jews in europe.

              3. britain wanted a buffer state/intermediate state between themselves and india so they can influence and subjugate those regions more effectively.

              The only jew in the british parliament opposed both the declaration and herzl’s idea of zionism. In fact jewish community themselves opposed zionism but then hitler came to power which caused many jews to change their opinions.

    • @SulaymanF@lemmy.worldEnglish
      12•2 months ago

      They’ll move those goalposts. “We killed everyone in Gaza by having them starve to death but we spared West Bank!”

      “We didn’t massacre the Arabs who have Israeli citizenship!”

      “We just deported every Arab from Israel and all territory we control, but we didn’t kill them!”

      • @assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.worldEnglish
        8•2 months ago

        Or they’ll say something like ‘well actually, it’s genoslaughter not genocide because israel didn’t mean to kill all the Gazan’s they just did so accidentally.’

    • @RubberElectrons@lemmy.worldEnglish
      11•2 months ago

      This is so disgusting. I never wanted to visit Israel even if it was for $free, but now I have even less respect for those Zionist assholes, and I had low respect for them before.

    • @Doorbook@lemmy.worldEnglish
      7•2 months ago

      The colonization power couldn’t say the word ceasefire. I don’t think the can say the word genocide.

      • @CritFail@lemmy.worldEnglish
        22•2 months ago

        That defence holds about such water as a colander. There is so much evidence to the contrary that it boggles the mind. They have bombed hospitals, schools, bomb shelters, kettled the entire population into a tiny parcel of land in the southernmost tip of the country while they finish levelling the rest of Palestine, and stopped all aid, journalists, water, and food entering the country. And then to add insult to injury they bomb the safe zones.

        A country’s right to defend itself does not extend to this. This isn’t defence.

        Do they expect the civilians with blown off limbs in bombed-out hospitals to walk to these not-so-safe zones? How do they expect the entire population to survive in these cramped conditions with no access to critical food, water, and medicine heading into winter? (Hint: they don’t.)

          • @TheFriar@lemm.eeEnglish
            12•2 months ago

            bomb shelters

            can you provide a source for this

            So…even if they didn’t, you’d be fine with the hospitals, schools, safe zones, etc? Just because of one fuckin flimsy ass excuse from Israel? And have you seen proof of every school, hospital, et al that’s been bombed being used by Hamas? Are you not asking for proof of that? But when the people are being fuckin slaughtered, you need proof that EVERY SINGLE FUCKIN safe haven had been leveled before you fuckin stand up for the people facing a goddamn genocide? Wheat the fuck is wrong with you

            But fine.

            https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-palestinian-civilians-safety-airstrikes-f38f27da1dd995acc14e6db1524761e7

            • @bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              -9•2 months ago

              I have heard from attacks on schools, hospitals, and safe zones. These were all used by combatants and thus legal military objectives under international humanitarian law.

              I have never even heard of bomb shelters existing for civilians in Gaza.

              • @TheFriar@lemm.eeEnglish
                10•2 months ago

                …do you even hear yourself?

                These people don’t have bomb shelters. WHERE THEY WERE TOLD BY ISRAEL TO SHELTER, THEY WERE FUCKING SLAUGHTERED. THAT IS THE FUCKING PROBLEM YOU GODDAMN MONSTER

                • @Doorbook@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  3•2 months ago

                  Don’t engage with troll. They are either bot, or have no plan to engage in any form of discussion instead utilities your time, to read news or maybe send letter or share the news with people around you. It is more productive to stop the genocide than talking to a bot or an idiot online.

                  • @TheFriar@lemm.eeEnglish
                    2•2 months ago

                    Yeah…but Hamas isn’t the people of Palestine. Hamas is a brutal fundamentalist regime.

                    That doesn’t mean Israel is not committing genocide.

                  • @TheFriar@lemm.eeEnglish
                    9•2 months ago

                    Excuse me for getting emotional over a fucking genocide. I find it strange that you’re not emotional over a clear as day genocide happening with all the proof in the world in front of our very eyes. And how you’re defending genocide as just a necessary step because of some flimsy ass excuse I simply don’t understand. I’m a human, so I tend to, y’know, passionately dislike genocide. What makes you defend genocide, if you don’t mind my asking?

                    I wonder if people were dismissed during the holocaust for getting emotional about the slaughter of innocent people.

          • @CritFail@lemmy.worldEnglish
            5•2 months ago

            Can you provide a source for this?

            This attack was four days ago

            For many months we have heard claims of imminent death starvation of millions and that evacuation from Rafah would be impossible. These claims didn’t materialize.

            I mean, evacuation is impossible at this point isnt it? Where would they go? Back to the levelled north? Force their way into Egypt? The fact that they aren’t all dead yet doesn’t disprove that Israel’s intent is to cause it, they just haven’t finished yet.

              • @CritFail@lemmy.worldEnglish
                6•2 months ago

                Oh sorry, I misread the article. It turns out Israel bombed a school that was situated in a refugee camp. It was being used as a shelter, that’s much better.

                But I looked into it and apparently Gaza doesn’t have bomb shelters, so it would be hard for Israel to bomb them, I suppose. Too expensive to build while embargoed and not prioritised by their government, I will strike that from my comment.

                Why doesn’t Egypt open the border?

                There are many reasons why they are reluctant. Do you think Egypt has the facilities to house and feed 2.2 million refugees? Does any country?

                Why should Palestinians be forced to leave when Israel insist they will not allow them to return to their homeland?

                  • @CritFail@lemmy.worldEnglish
                    4•2 months ago

                    Yeah, Hamas are bastards. They have not allowed elections and ruled dictatorially for a generation, and do not have a right to think they represent the people of Gaza. The innocent civillian Gazan population don’t deserve to suffer as a result. Hamas have done horrible things, not building necessary bomb shelters from an oppressive Israel is one of them. The lack of bomb shelters in Gaza does not mean you or anyone should condone bombing of a civilian population. They had the nerve to talk to NYT to say they were getting PTSD from running over too many unarmed Gazan civilians with a bulldozer. Actions like this make Netanyahu, and the complicit IDF and encourageable Israeli voting population bastards.

                    That this needs to be spelled out is depressing.

              • @AntidenialistEnglish
                1•2 months ago

                Because they don’t want to finish like kadhaffi

          • @Keeponstalin@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
            2•2 months ago

            Hamas only exists because of the Apartheid Occupation of Israel and the daily violence that has subjected Palestinians to for generations. Israel has always been the obstacle for peace, and has been the one preventing a ceasefire.

            De-development via the Gaza Occupation

            Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah.

            Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.’ In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah.

            • Page 105

            Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986.

            • page 240

            In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60% over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50% decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (combined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million.

            • Page 402

            • The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy

            Blockade, including Aid

            Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.

            After the ‘disengagement’ in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of ‘dual-use’ Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.

            The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human life due to shortages of housing, potable water and electricity, and lack of access to essential medicines and medical care, food, educational equipment and building materials.

            Peace Process and Solution

            Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution

            How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

            ‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

            One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

            Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.

            Israel justifies nearly every attack on civilians with the lie of ‘human shields’

            Human Shields

            Hamas:

            Intentionally utilizing the presence of civilians or other protected persons to render certain areas immune from military attack is prohibited under international law. Amnesty International was not able to establish whether or not the fighters’ presence in the camps was intended to shield themselves from military attacks. However, under international humanitarian law, even if one party uses “human shields”, or is otherwise unlawfully endangering civilians, this does not absolve the opposing party from complying with its obligations to distinguish between military objectives and civilians or civilian objects, to refrain from carrying out indiscriminate or disproportionate attacks, and to take all feasible precautions to spare civilians and civilian objects.

            Israel:

            Additionally, there is extensive independent verification of Israel using Palestinians as Human Shields:

            Deliberate Attacks on Civilians

            Israel deliberately targets civilian areas. From in general with the Dahiya Doctrine to multiple systems deployed in Gaza to do so:

            Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.

            • @bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              -3•2 months ago

              Hamas gained popularity and notoriety during the Oslo peace process by suicide bombings and being fundamentally opposed to any peace deal with Israel. They only exist because of intransigence and inability to compromise among Palestinians.

          • @zbyte64@awful.systemsEnglish
            1•2 months ago

            For many months we have heard claims of imminent death starvation of millions and that evacuation from Rafah would be impossible. These claims didn’t materialize

            Just thousands of deaths from starvation, not millions, totally not a genocide. /s

      • @just_an_average_joe@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        5•2 months ago

        Thats actually a tool of genocide. The whole point of creating the gas chambers was to create an efficient genocide machine. The guards who took the prisoners to the chambers were different from guards who took the bodies. The guards who interacted with the prisoners weren’t allowed to decide who got to live and who did not.

        All in all, the chambers gave the guards a sense of “we are just following orders” feeling thus lessening their guilt. Because no matter how cruel it is, the humans will feel guilt.

        The calling for evacuation is also a similar tool to lessen the guilt of the soldiers. Afterall, those people who died were told to evacuate therefore their death is on their hands.

      • @AntidenialistEnglish
        4•2 months ago

        And then they bombed the place they said were gonna be safe.

      • @undergroundoverground@lemmy.worldEnglish
        4•2 months ago

        Israel declaring everyone should just leave is great and everything but where is safe for them to go?

        Its just, to me, the only places they seem to be able to go that might be safe are outside of Palestine but maybe I’m just being cynical.