I am not buying an EV until they are using LFP batteries. LiFePo4 have so much more life…I really don’t want to be replacing huge banks of lithium ion in 5 years.
Some manufacturers seem to be getting on board with this. Disappointing that hedge clipper (what I know Fisker for) here isn’t one of them. Sorry…that is Fiskar, a totally different company.
My 8yo Outlander still has ~80% of original range on lithium batteries.
You might be one of those people keeping cars for 20 years, but majority swap cars much more frequently so lithium battery degradation is not really an issue.
Transmission is pretty much the only component I can think of that’s simpler. I have four motors (5 with ICE) instead of one. Lots more cooling lines. Ton of high voltage / high amperage wiring. And a ton of silicone chips that make all that work together.
I agree that you can build an electric car simpler than an ICE car, but there are no real world examples other than a few unique cases like Edison Motors.
I feel like maybe you’re counting components wrong. An ICE has… I actually don’t know, but a lot of moving parts. It looks really hard to pull a combustion car apart to swap anything major. I know less about the cooling, I admit.
Hybrids do not count here, they actually add together the complexity of both.
I went to school for electro-mechanics, electric drive trains are much simpler. The electronics have a couple of details, but they are basically scaled up computer psu-s. Biggest problem for car manufacturers is probably designing a different car then the ones they made before. Bateries are the most expensive part and should degrade faster then the motors (decades), maybe even electronics (10 years, depends on design).
But yea cars have gotten too expensive in the last 15(?) years.
For starters, you can replace the equivalent of the battery: fuel
Don’t get me wrong; my next car will be an EV. But it is disingenuous to hand wave the reality that EV batteries are expensive and difficult to replace, somewhat negating the economical and environmental benefits.
I do all of my work on my own cars in my home shop, including things like dropping transmissions. This is why I’m able to keep cars for over 20 years. But there’s no way I would be able to even start to replace an EV battery pack simply due to the weight.
But, for me anyway, that’s not a compelling excuse not to get an EV. It’s the way of the future and, by the sheer nature of getting one, I’m promoting their adoption, encouraging their innovation, and driving down the cost overall. So I look forward to it, even if there are some inconvenient truths.
A little over 70k miles on odo. Covid subtracted about a year worth of miles. I can’t even guesstimate charge/discharge cycles unfortunately.
When I bought the car I couldn’t charge at home for the first year so I wasn’t charging much and drove it like a regular hybrid.
After 1 year I was able to charge at home and doing about 90% electric driving. Discharging ~100% and recharging fully every night on days I drove the car.
LiFePo4 batteries have lower energy density than other Lithium Ion batteries and they’re more expensive. So while they have much longer life your EV running LiFePo4 is going to have shorter range.
I am not buying an EV until they are using LFP batteries. LiFePo4 have so much more life…I really don’t want to be replacing huge banks of lithium ion in 5 years.
Some manufacturers seem to be getting on board with this. Disappointing that hedge clipper (what I know Fisker for) here isn’t one of them. Sorry…that is Fiskar, a totally different company.
Could you link some stats for this?
My 8yo Outlander still has ~80% of original range on lithium batteries.
You might be one of those people keeping cars for 20 years, but majority swap cars much more frequently so lithium battery degradation is not really an issue.
Yeah well then I hope I can replace the battery easily and for cheap when I buy the car second-hand.
What major part of a modern ICE car can you replace easily and for cheap?
Cars are expensive and complicated as fuck. I don’t like it, but that’s just life in 2023.
Actually, electrics are a lot simpler, so relatively cheap battery swaps isn’t out of the question if they’re designed right.
Transmission is pretty much the only component I can think of that’s simpler. I have four motors (5 with ICE) instead of one. Lots more cooling lines. Ton of high voltage / high amperage wiring. And a ton of silicone chips that make all that work together.
I agree that you can build an electric car simpler than an ICE car, but there are no real world examples other than a few unique cases like Edison Motors.
I feel like maybe you’re counting components wrong. An ICE has… I actually don’t know, but a lot of moving parts. It looks really hard to pull a combustion car apart to swap anything major. I know less about the cooling, I admit.
Hybrids do not count here, they actually add together the complexity of both.
Why are you getting into the whole powertain & drivetain? I was just talking about the goddamn battery!
I went to school for electro-mechanics, electric drive trains are much simpler. The electronics have a couple of details, but they are basically scaled up computer psu-s. Biggest problem for car manufacturers is probably designing a different car then the ones they made before. Bateries are the most expensive part and should degrade faster then the motors (decades), maybe even electronics (10 years, depends on design).
But yea cars have gotten too expensive in the last 15(?) years.
Emphasis on the battery
And yes, you’ll need the right tools, knowledge, skill, and time; but where there’s a will, there’s a way.
I’m just hoping the automakers won’t start glueing and plastic soldering stuff just like it’s done in newer laptops.
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For starters, you can replace the equivalent of the battery: fuel
Don’t get me wrong; my next car will be an EV. But it is disingenuous to hand wave the reality that EV batteries are expensive and difficult to replace, somewhat negating the economical and environmental benefits.
I do all of my work on my own cars in my home shop, including things like dropping transmissions. This is why I’m able to keep cars for over 20 years. But there’s no way I would be able to even start to replace an EV battery pack simply due to the weight.
But, for me anyway, that’s not a compelling excuse not to get an EV. It’s the way of the future and, by the sheer nature of getting one, I’m promoting their adoption, encouraging their innovation, and driving down the cost overall. So I look forward to it, even if there are some inconvenient truths.
Ah yes, let’s get rid of ICE vehicles so we can churn EVs every 5 years, that’ll help the environment taps forehead
Interesting. I have no stats. Do you have any idea how many miles or how many charge/discharge cycles you’ve done?
A little over 70k miles on odo. Covid subtracted about a year worth of miles. I can’t even guesstimate charge/discharge cycles unfortunately.
When I bought the car I couldn’t charge at home for the first year so I wasn’t charging much and drove it like a regular hybrid.
After 1 year I was able to charge at home and doing about 90% electric driving. Discharging ~100% and recharging fully every night on days I drove the car.
LiFePo4 batteries have lower energy density than other Lithium Ion batteries and they’re more expensive. So while they have much longer life your EV running LiFePo4 is going to have shorter range.
I’d love to be able to get a small lifepo for the city and keep my ICE for longer distances.
I think the real short term answer is a plug in hybrid LiFePo4 where the ICE is basically just a range extender.
I would absolutely take that trade-off. I don’t need a lot of range.
The MG4 is a sub 30 000€ available in Europe that uses LFP battery in the entry level version.