According to the debate, they had their reasons. But still – when one hundred and eighty six nations say one thing, and two say another, you have to wonder about the two.

    • @ShinkanTrain@lemmy.mlEnglish
      7•3 months ago

      Clearing land for soy and cattle exports is also the main reason the Amazon and the Pantanal are burning. Two of the most unique and biodiverse biomes on Earth are being reduced to ash and still people go hungry.

      The world we made is too inefficient.

        • miss phant
          4•3 months ago

          Veganism is not even about absolutism, it’s about reducing animal cruelty to the extent possible and practical. Throwing out a leather belt you already own would not lead to any reduction in animal harm, I’d even call it an action that would go against veganism.

          • SpotEnglish
            4•3 months ago

            I once met a caravan of “Roadkill” vegans. They would not eat anything animal related unless it was for sure going to go to waste. They had pamphlets on how to make sure if the meat was spoiled or not, processing guides on how to get the most use of animals, all kinds of info I found very surprising from what I had known of veganism.

            • @grysbok@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
              2•3 months ago

              Makes sense. I don’t order pork but if something comes with surprise bacon I’ll eat it–the pig is already dead. And I’ll be angry at Applebee’s for adding unlisted bacon to their macaroni and cheese. (Seriously, you have no vegetation options and when I try the “make a meal out of sides” trick you add betrayal bacon? I’m glad millennials are killing Applebee’s.)

          • Angry_Autist (he/him)
            -3•3 months ago

            What if I told you the cessation of animal husbandry will result in greater misery and possible extinction of our current domesticated animals?

            Basically all domesticated animals except pigs cannot thrive in the wild any longer. Releasing them would be a cruelty greater than a quick death in a slaughterhouse.

            When we first domesticated animals we made a sacred pact with them: If they provide for ours, we will care for theirs, and it’s an ancient pact older than any living culture.

            • @friendlymessage@feddit.org
              3•3 months ago

              You’re working under the hypothetical that mankind would just one day stop consuming animal products and every animal would be released into the wild. That’s not what would happen.

              There are two possibilities: policy-driven or consumer-driven, both essentially work the same way. We would at some point stop breeding new farm animals, be it because it’s outlawed or because demand for animal products would go down. Either way, this would be a gradual process over decades. Every animal that is already bred would of course still be slaughtered, just like they are now. This would lead to the extinction of the domesticated branches of some animal families, true. However, as they add absolutely nothing to biodiversity, there is no loss to nature. Their free cousins still exist roaming the planet anyway such as the red junglefowl and the wild boar.

              Also, feral chickens, feral dogs, feral pigeons, and feral cats among many more feel hurt by your statement they couldn’t survive in the wild. For many domesticated animals it’s simply not feasible to release them to the wild not because they couldn’t survive on an individual level but because of their sheer number no potential habitate could survive it.

              When we first domesticated animals we made a sacred pact with them

              You’re very much romanticizing what happened here. A pact requires consent. Animals can’t consent, so there is no pact. Especially not a sacred one, I mean, what the fuck?

              I wouldn’t go as far as calling what we’re doing slavery either for the same reason, human concepts of free will and consent don’t really work with animals. But if you think, we’re actually caring for these animals, I have a bridge to sell you.

            • htrayl
              1•3 months ago

              I would say your simply wrong.

              It is not more moral to keep billions of animals alive, and in miserable conditions, solely for the purpose of consuming them, despite any romanticized idea of keeping a completely artificially selected species around.

              And also, that there isn’t a world where we completely give up meat eating anyways, and even less of a world where we let them go extinct.

        • @AA5B@lemmy.world
          1•3 months ago

          Forget tofu - I can never seem to cook it right. I like the approach just one less red meat meal per week (for example, chicken is better for you and better for the environment), or one less meat meal per week (there are many common meals that happen to not have meat, like a salad, or eggs, or depending on how you count fish). I can have a black bean patty without being vegetarian

          Look at what a small change over the whole population cannot do! Looks like a long term trend in the right direction, but heading back up over the last decade

          https://aei.ag/overview/article/meat-consumption-trends-2023

            • Angry_Autist (he/him)
              2•3 months ago

              I like to saute tons of onions at once and use them throughout the week, after doing a bunch I’ll deglaze, add salt and seasoning and simmer a bunch of tofu in that. Gives good color and great flavor, and can be added to basically any meal.

        • Angry_Autist (he/him)
          0•3 months ago

          You eat tofu because you think eating animals is mean.

          I eat tofu because I’m broke and its 2 bucks a lb and a good source of protein that can be added to nearly any meal. We are not the same.

          And I likely eat a fucktonne more tofu than you do. Like probably 2 or 3 times unless you eat it basically every day.

          Haven’t bought red meat in over 2 months, not for lack of wanting mind you. I have a frozen pack of bone in chicken thighs that I use to flavor my tofu, and if I stretch it it will last all month.

          I don’t know who the fuck you think you’re talking to, it’s amazingly extra to imagine my eating habits and then berate them for your imaginings. It’s like when your girlfriend is angry at you for cheating on her in a dream.

            • Angry_Autist (he/him)
              -1•3 months ago

              No I will NOT fucking let you end it on this. The whole ‘meat leads to food scarcity’ is absolute twenty year old rancid bullshit filled with the insidious corn kernels of deceit.

              We throw enough food away untouched to feed every single hungry person in America twice over, our food scarcity is entirely artificial.

              Are you aware that the U.S. government forces farmers to let food rot to keep prices sable?

              Do you magically think that if we stopped animal agriculture tomorrow that food will magically become cheap for the needy?

              No it won’t, because the government will AGAIN AS IT HAS EVERY YEAR just order more farmers to not sell their crops.

              This is why we hate vegans, it isn’t just about your empty moral self-superiority, it isn’t just your poorly thought out but loudly shouted schemes, it’s all that added to the fact that you actively go out of your way to find disinformation that appeals to your values, and then choose to believe it regardless of any outside facts.

              I cannot even begin to relate the contempt I feel for people who actively forward disproven ‘knowledge’ with zero regard to its accuracy.