• themeatbridge
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    1 year ago

    The text of the section they are challenging (emphasis added):

    No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

    It’s an exceptionally stupid argument, even for Trump. Obviously “preserve, protect, and defend” are all forms of support, so this challenge is quite possibly the stupidest legal argument they’ve made so far (which is an extremely high bar). But I suppose they don’t think they can realistically claim that he didnt engage in insurrection.

    • @Tidesphere@lemmy.world
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      561 year ago

      Hold up, if that’s the crux of his argument, does that mean that his argument is

      “I can’t be barred from running because I never took an oath to support the constitution. Therefore my inciting insurrection is not covered by this clause. But I totally incited rebellion.”?

      • TechyDad
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        381 year ago

        “I crossed my fingers when I took the oath of office so it didn’t count. Also, I’m rubber and you’re glue. Whatever 14th Amendment you throw bounces off of me and sticks to you!”

        -Trump’s next legal arguments…

      • vortic
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        1 year ago

        Unfortunately, I think it is “while I do not admit to starting a rebellion, whether I did or not is immaterial because ‘preserve, protect, and defend’ definitely doesn’t include ‘support’”

    • BarqsHasBite
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      231 year ago

      Wow that’s stupid. I’m sure this comes up all the time with wording of other laws and I’m sure judges are used to eviscerating it. Now as long as we don’t get stupid judges…

    • @Saganaki@lemmy.one
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      1 year ago

      It’s not quite that simple. To be clear, the argument being proposed by his lawyers is that he is not an “officer of the United States” so it doesn’t apply to him.

      Basically, there’s legal precedent that elected officials aren’t officers of the US because they are elected and not hired. Add to that the sheer number of commas, “and”s, and “or”s, that it can get legally murky.

      NB: Not a lawyer. Read about the above on Mastadon from a legal scholar. Will see if I can find the link.

      • @samsepi0l@lemmy.world
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        71 year ago

        Doesn’t the “No person shall be a … elector of President and Vice President” just outright say that the statement obviously includes elected officials? Specifically the POTUS and VPOTUS?

        • BOMBS
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          71 year ago

          I think it directly implies POTUS, especially this part:

          or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States,

          But also, they don’t have to be legally correct or in-keeping with the spirit of the Constitution. Under my assumption that a few of the Supreme Court Justices are surely psychopaths, they just need an interpretation that’s plausible enough to avoid consequences to themselves.

        • @Saganaki@lemmy.one
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          31 year ago

          The argument I’ve seen is that the condition part of the clause (insurrection) by language only applies to the bit after “who, having previously…”

          Basically, the argument goes “It says you can’t be President or Vice President if you did insurrection while an officer of the US”—but it doesn’t say you can’t be President if you did insurrection while president of the US.

          To be clear: I think it’s fucking idiotic and against the spirit of the law—but I’m no lawyer/legal expert.

    • @Daft_ish@lemmy.world
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      -11 year ago

      While i hate Trump and don’t think he has a leg I can see some give in this argument. Just in the idea that I don’t think a president should have to support the entirety of the US constitution. I think a representative of the US government can disagree with aspects of the constitution but still preserve, protect, and defend it.

      It’s not a very strong argument but there is something to be said.