There is no way to fix stupid. All of the elements needed to go underground are included in the instruction manual for all religions. It only creates further conflicts in future generations. The only way to fix this is to introduce scientific thought and principals at a young age across generations and slowly whittle away at them. If you present a solid target, you’ll never succeed. People must realize on their own that they do not believe in magic and that this applies across all of time in both directions without exception. They need to see things like the cosmological constants are the true signature of the universe. If a god made this place at a minimum she should have written these down to undeniably sign her work. People need to realise, the past had extremely uneducated people, but they still had clever conartists, they still had all the mental health disorders we see now and then far more because of those that get treatment now. When something says X-Y-Z happened and thousands of people saw it, do we have thousands of accounts or one person saying so. Did they write it down right after it happened or decades later. Do their accounts have errors like a school kid cheating on their homework and copying others or are they consistent. Saying “X-Y-Z happened, and ten thousand people saw it” four decades after it happened and after a giant rebellion where most of those people died is nonsense. Some prophet zooming around like they have Dr Who’s Tardis is just as fiction. People were stupid back then. They are not much better now. We were all very stupid as children. It is hard to reverse the stupid things we learned as children. The only way to fix this is to get to these children subtly without alerting the stupid children that are raising them.
I mean, you are absolutely correct. The only people that I know of to be successful at removing religion by force are the Chinese. The Russians tried to do it and failed miserably.
But we should also continue step up the shaming of people and cultures involved in things like child marriage, abuse of women, basically human rights violations.
I also think that we should shine a spotlight on the non-Abrahamic religions as well.
After all, if I started a nonprofit organization called “Save the whales”, and got donations all the time. Had “save the whales” meetings every Tuesday. But then you found out I was taking that money and killing whales. The world would be pretty upset, and rightly so.
Well if you have a religion, and say that you love everyone because that’s what your religion teaches. But then you abuse children, women, minorities, basically the vulnerable people in your community. That’s a huge problem.
So in closing I just want to say that you are correct. People have to realize on their own, but I think that the people involved in these abuses should also be publicly shamed and humiliated.
I mean that’s not how China did it, also I didn’t say I agreed with it. You read way too much into it. As far as Mao’s cultural revolution goes. It was brutal for reasons other than what you listed, and it was successful because it worked.
I just want to make it clear that I don’t endorse genocide. I never said I did. You assumed that’s what I meant for some reason, and you know what happens when you assume?
That’s absolutely how China does it, there are concentration camps in Xinjiang and they are imprisoning Uyghurs for praying. The evidence is stark and there are UN talks with NGOs and many many news reports from survivors. Why would you side with this?
There are now. You are correct, but that’s not how China got rid of religion amongst the Chinese people during the cultural revolution. Which is what I was talking about.
See, Mao followed Stallin’s playbook. You get rid of the smart, the rich, and religious. That makes it easier to pull everyone together under the same banner. They both got rid of the bourgeoisie. They both got rid of intelligentsia. But only China was able to get rid of religion among the Chinese people.
You are correct though that today they use “reeducation camps”. Which is why they haven’t been as successful this time around. As someone else pointed out in this thread. When you use force to take away a religious identity. Stories about, and instructions for going underground are built into the teachings.
Anyway, you are right, but I was talking about the Chinese people proper. The Han Chinese I guess.
I’m not going to waste my time on someone who is an apologist for genocide and concentration camps, just because it happens to people you have a prejudice against.
Edit: and someone with a troll username should have tipped me off that it’s not debating them in good faith. That’s not an ad hominem.
I never said that what China was doing was ok. As someone that visited Tibet, and then was made to leave early by the CCP. I’m no fan of china or genocide. I think we can all agree that concentration camps are not ok.
But religions aren’t just what they say. They are what they do. For instance, I don’t think it says to SA kids in the Bible. Yet they seem to have a propensity for it. The Quran doesn’t say anything about honor killings, but if Muslims do it. Then it’s a Muslim thing.
There is no way to fix stupid. All of the elements needed to go underground are included in the instruction manual for all religions. It only creates further conflicts in future generations. The only way to fix this is to introduce scientific thought and principals at a young age across generations and slowly whittle away at them. If you present a solid target, you’ll never succeed. People must realize on their own that they do not believe in magic and that this applies across all of time in both directions without exception. They need to see things like the cosmological constants are the true signature of the universe. If a god made this place at a minimum she should have written these down to undeniably sign her work. People need to realise, the past had extremely uneducated people, but they still had clever conartists, they still had all the mental health disorders we see now and then far more because of those that get treatment now. When something says X-Y-Z happened and thousands of people saw it, do we have thousands of accounts or one person saying so. Did they write it down right after it happened or decades later. Do their accounts have errors like a school kid cheating on their homework and copying others or are they consistent. Saying “X-Y-Z happened, and ten thousand people saw it” four decades after it happened and after a giant rebellion where most of those people died is nonsense. Some prophet zooming around like they have Dr Who’s Tardis is just as fiction. People were stupid back then. They are not much better now. We were all very stupid as children. It is hard to reverse the stupid things we learned as children. The only way to fix this is to get to these children subtly without alerting the stupid children that are raising them.
I mean, you are absolutely correct. The only people that I know of to be successful at removing religion by force are the Chinese. The Russians tried to do it and failed miserably.
But we should also continue step up the shaming of people and cultures involved in things like child marriage, abuse of women, basically human rights violations.
I also think that we should shine a spotlight on the non-Abrahamic religions as well.
After all, if I started a nonprofit organization called “Save the whales”, and got donations all the time. Had “save the whales” meetings every Tuesday. But then you found out I was taking that money and killing whales. The world would be pretty upset, and rightly so.
Well if you have a religion, and say that you love everyone because that’s what your religion teaches. But then you abuse children, women, minorities, basically the vulnerable people in your community. That’s a huge problem.
So in closing I just want to say that you are correct. People have to realize on their own, but I think that the people involved in these abuses should also be publicly shamed and humiliated.
You call concentration camps and mass death “successful?” I know it’s trendy to hate religion, but promoting actual genocide to do it? Come on.
I mean that’s not how China did it, also I didn’t say I agreed with it. You read way too much into it. As far as Mao’s cultural revolution goes. It was brutal for reasons other than what you listed, and it was successful because it worked.
I just want to make it clear that I don’t endorse genocide. I never said I did. You assumed that’s what I meant for some reason, and you know what happens when you assume?
That’s absolutely how China does it, there are concentration camps in Xinjiang and they are imprisoning Uyghurs for praying. The evidence is stark and there are UN talks with NGOs and many many news reports from survivors. Why would you side with this?
There are now. You are correct, but that’s not how China got rid of religion amongst the Chinese people during the cultural revolution. Which is what I was talking about.
See, Mao followed Stallin’s playbook. You get rid of the smart, the rich, and religious. That makes it easier to pull everyone together under the same banner. They both got rid of the bourgeoisie. They both got rid of intelligentsia. But only China was able to get rid of religion among the Chinese people.
You are correct though that today they use “reeducation camps”. Which is why they haven’t been as successful this time around. As someone else pointed out in this thread. When you use force to take away a religious identity. Stories about, and instructions for going underground are built into the teachings.
Anyway, you are right, but I was talking about the Chinese people proper. The Han Chinese I guess.
I’m not going to waste my time on someone who is an apologist for genocide and concentration camps, just because it happens to people you have a prejudice against.
Edit: and someone with a troll username should have tipped me off that it’s not debating them in good faith. That’s not an ad hominem.
First off I’m going to call Ad Hominem fallacy.
But…
I never said that what China was doing was ok. As someone that visited Tibet, and then was made to leave early by the CCP. I’m no fan of china or genocide. I think we can all agree that concentration camps are not ok.
But religions aren’t just what they say. They are what they do. For instance, I don’t think it says to SA kids in the Bible. Yet they seem to have a propensity for it. The Quran doesn’t say anything about honor killings, but if Muslims do it. Then it’s a Muslim thing.